I noticed two simple name games that SRD includes in Runes.
Anele is Elena backwards.
Liand (son of ) Fostil is Findail lost rearranged.
Does this mean anything?
Name game
Moderator: dlbpharmd
Donaldson himself did not notice that Anele was Elena backwards until someone pointed it out to him in the GI. I reckon if you do a search on the GI you should be able to find that question pretty easily.
I don't think the Liand one has been noticed before, seems like a strange thing to just suddenly notice though... How did you realise?
I don't think the Liand one has been noticed before, seems like a strange thing to just suddenly notice though... How did you realise?
[spoiler]If you change the font to white within spoiler tags does it break them?[/spoiler]
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Waynhim Wedge
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possible spoiler!
I always try to look at the names that SRD uses. I think he likes to includes these little riddles in all of his Covenant books. Like for example in LFB Thomas is in the tower of Revelstone and reflects upon the red moon. He asks Foul (to himself) if he will encore the red moon by raping children. This is a clue that Thomas and Foul are the same (as Thomas concludes to Foul at the end of WGW) since Thomas is actually the one who already performed that crime. There are dozens of things like that.
First: Welcome to the Watch, Waynhim Wedge! (Say that quick 3x)
But...Aaarrgghh! Yet another post pointing out that "Anele is Elena spelled backwards."
Please don't take offense, Waynhim, as this isn't really about you specifically, but just my general reaction to the plethora of posts that keep mentioning the Anele-Elena thing. If you look through the pages of this forum and realize how many times it's mentioned, I think you'd be exasperated, too.
Can we get a moratorium on Anele-Elena to preserve our sanity?
If this drives little ol' me crazy, then SRD must have fits in his GI, because I suspect every other Runes question sent to him includes the observation: "Hey, Steve, Anele is Elena spelled backwards!"
But...Aaarrgghh! Yet another post pointing out that "Anele is Elena spelled backwards."
Please don't take offense, Waynhim, as this isn't really about you specifically, but just my general reaction to the plethora of posts that keep mentioning the Anele-Elena thing. If you look through the pages of this forum and realize how many times it's mentioned, I think you'd be exasperated, too.
Can we get a moratorium on Anele-Elena to preserve our sanity?
If this drives little ol' me crazy, then SRD must have fits in his GI, because I suspect every other Runes question sent to him includes the observation: "Hey, Steve, Anele is Elena spelled backwards!"
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Waynhim Wedge
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apologies
sorry, all. i guess that was my annointing by fire. i can see how that might be an easy one to catch.
a little about me: i've read the seventh book twice so far, and i've read the first six books at least 8 times. every year i'll sit down and revisit the gang. ROTE wasn't my fav but it sets up alot. can't wait for No. 8! my fav new character is stave (i love those haruchai), but i am very interested to see what esmer and anele are all about (obviously).
when the demondim showed up in the "past" and then came to the "present" i started thinking about their history and how it was mentioned in the first six books. i remember reading thatSRD wrote the first three books without much thought to writing anything more. but the second trilogy and this third triology are supposed to be connected so anything mentioned in the first may not be as seamless as it could be... anyway... loric vilesilencer fought the viles and at the end of his struggle (i believe with the help of the demondim) made the vile unable to reproduce themselves (or something implying procreation). but it was also said that the viles were the offspring of the evil banes of the earth. any thoughts on this Vile-Demondim-Urvile/Wayhim family history and how it relates to the new series?
a little about me: i've read the seventh book twice so far, and i've read the first six books at least 8 times. every year i'll sit down and revisit the gang. ROTE wasn't my fav but it sets up alot. can't wait for No. 8! my fav new character is stave (i love those haruchai), but i am very interested to see what esmer and anele are all about (obviously).
when the demondim showed up in the "past" and then came to the "present" i started thinking about their history and how it was mentioned in the first six books. i remember reading thatSRD wrote the first three books without much thought to writing anything more. but the second trilogy and this third triology are supposed to be connected so anything mentioned in the first may not be as seamless as it could be... anyway... loric vilesilencer fought the viles and at the end of his struggle (i believe with the help of the demondim) made the vile unable to reproduce themselves (or something implying procreation). but it was also said that the viles were the offspring of the evil banes of the earth. any thoughts on this Vile-Demondim-Urvile/Wayhim family history and how it relates to the new series?
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CovenantJr
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Re: apologies
No need to apologise. It's impossible to scour every topic to see if something you want to say has been said before. Welcome!Waynhim Wedge wrote:sorry, all. i guess that was my annointing by fire. i can see how that might be an easy one to catch.
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drew
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As far as the Name game goes WayWedge..and by the way welcome to the Watch!-whn I see Liand's name, I just take out the letter 'i'...and I'm left with ....Land
-As in, he represents the Land in general..he's the Micro-cosim.
-As in, he represents the Land in general..he's the Micro-cosim.
I thought you were a ripe grape
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
Liand - Land, that makes so much sense!
I think Lost Findail is significant too, as is the fact that Stave is called Stave (as in staves minus s). I think they both could refer to the Staff of Law, and in Stave's case him being exiled from his people.
This inspired me to play with Mahrtiir and try out various anagrams. Ratri Hamir sounds like it might be correct. Ratri is the Indian goddess of the night, as far as Zelazny's Lord of Light, my main source of Indian mythology knowledge, can be trusted. This fits with the last book being called The Last Dark. I googled for various combinations of the rest of the letters and found the tale of Hamir Dev, an Indian king who was very valiant and came to a bad end.
The following about the Mahdoubt might be a better fit for the Mahdoubt thread, but anyway:
Mahout (elephant driver) - Fits with the idea that the Mahdoubt is a Demondim who controls the body she (it) occupies but is separate from it and can get another vehicle.
Mother of Doubt - Fits with her warning to Linden.
Mother of the Redoubt - Obvious. She radiates motherliness.
I think Lost Findail is significant too, as is the fact that Stave is called Stave (as in staves minus s). I think they both could refer to the Staff of Law, and in Stave's case him being exiled from his people.
This inspired me to play with Mahrtiir and try out various anagrams. Ratri Hamir sounds like it might be correct. Ratri is the Indian goddess of the night, as far as Zelazny's Lord of Light, my main source of Indian mythology knowledge, can be trusted. This fits with the last book being called The Last Dark. I googled for various combinations of the rest of the letters and found the tale of Hamir Dev, an Indian king who was very valiant and came to a bad end.
The following about the Mahdoubt might be a better fit for the Mahdoubt thread, but anyway:
Mahout (elephant driver) - Fits with the idea that the Mahdoubt is a Demondim who controls the body she (it) occupies but is separate from it and can get another vehicle.
Mother of Doubt - Fits with her warning to Linden.
Mother of the Redoubt - Obvious. She radiates motherliness.
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The Laughing Man
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Stave is a punk. heh. 
Maybe Esmer is supposed to "aim" the white gold? Or "point"Linden in the right direction to find Foul?The Esmer wrote: Then I found the actual definition to the name, which is also just a word. Then I wondered, does Esmer's name, and the definition, provide any clues to his purpose in the Chronicles? Do any or all of the character names provide "clues" to their purpose in the stories?
Whacha 'tink?
[Middle English aimen, from Old French esmer, to estimate (from Latin aestimre) and from Old French aesmer (from Vulgar Latin *ad estimre : Latin ad-, ad- + Latin aestimre, to estimate).]
aim (m)
v. aimed, aim·ing, aims
v.tr.
1. To direct (a weapon) toward an intended target.
2. To direct toward or intend for a particular goal or group
www.thefreedictionary.com/aimThe Twenty-third Spirit is Aim:
...carrying a Firebrand in his Hand, wherewith he setteth cities, castles, and great Places, on fire.He maketh thee witty in all manner of ways, and giveth true answers unto private matters.
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Avatar
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Welcome aboard, Waynhim Wedge, and Like Cj said, don't worry about it.
Once more, I'll make my stock observation that we're trying to read too much into every little detail. Some of it is just that...detail.
Not to say that there isn't something up with the Mahdoubt, because there obviously is, (I think Nerdanel is talking about the shadows/wisps around her there), but sometimes a name is just something you call somebody by, you know?
--A
Once more, I'll make my stock observation that we're trying to read too much into every little detail. Some of it is just that...detail.
Not to say that there isn't something up with the Mahdoubt, because there obviously is, (I think Nerdanel is talking about the shadows/wisps around her there), but sometimes a name is just something you call somebody by, you know?
--A
I found another view to Liand: a male version of Lena. The names are close to each other with L and N and some vowels in the middle that may sound much like each other. In addition, also the triplet consisting of young Lena/Elena/old Lena can be viewed as symbolizing the Land.
Linden is far too nice a person to rape Liand, but we'll see how his story develops. If the Land connection holds and book titles are any indication, Liand should start having serious problems around Shall Pass Utterly and be in bad shape by The Last Dark. He may well die in that book.
Liand is also close to Linden. I don't know if that means anything, but it's certainly slightly weird. It might be only that both names are close to Lena - Liand as "Linden's Lena" and Linden as "Covenant's Second Chronicles Lena" - where the actual story arches of the "Lenas" vary greatly.
About Mahrtiir, Hamir Dev could certainly be said to be a martyr of his convictions, so I think both interpretations could be correct.
Linden is far too nice a person to rape Liand, but we'll see how his story develops. If the Land connection holds and book titles are any indication, Liand should start having serious problems around Shall Pass Utterly and be in bad shape by The Last Dark. He may well die in that book.
Liand is also close to Linden. I don't know if that means anything, but it's certainly slightly weird. It might be only that both names are close to Lena - Liand as "Linden's Lena" and Linden as "Covenant's Second Chronicles Lena" - where the actual story arches of the "Lenas" vary greatly.
About Mahrtiir, Hamir Dev could certainly be said to be a martyr of his convictions, so I think both interpretations could be correct.
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finn
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Linden raping Liand I think is unlikely, I think it true
On the other hand there may be something in Liand raping Linden. Sets up all sorts of things especially between Linden and TC, ie lovers, but one a rape victim, the other a rapist. It also sets up a curious balance in the chronicles if this happpenned, outworlder rapes Land inhabitant, then Land inhabitant rapes offworlder almost a personification of a struggle between two worlds.
On the other hand there may be something in Liand raping Linden. Sets up all sorts of things especially between Linden and TC, ie lovers, but one a rape victim, the other a rapist. It also sets up a curious balance in the chronicles if this happpenned, outworlder rapes Land inhabitant, then Land inhabitant rapes offworlder almost a personification of a struggle between two worlds.
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the bourgeois bee
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they legally can, it's an abuse of power thing. say your boss is a wildly unattractive lady who says she's going to fire your mexican immigrant ass unless you giver her one. your command of english is pretty bad let alone your knowledge of white man's law so as far as you can see, you're stuck between a rock and an ugly place.
you're the sole income earner for your wife and thirteen little enchiladas so you hop off the good foot and do the bad thing. that's rape.
you're the sole income earner for your wife and thirteen little enchiladas so you hop off the good foot and do the bad thing. that's rape.
When I learned that the word 'decide' has the same latin root word as 'suicide' and genocide', I started making more choices.
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finn
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Agreed.
TBB:
I think you'll find that a man can rape a woman but a woman cannot rape a man. The legalities are I believe, tied up in the act itself, if a man is capable and aroused for the act, it is deemed that he is an 'active' party and in effect consenting. (bit like the soccer offside rule).
Abuse of power, threatening wrongful dismissal, etc, etc is something else and is not called rape.
Get many immigrants up on the central coast? Refugees pour into Port Stephens after the marlin boats have gone? Big Harry importing cheap labour is he?
TBB:
I think you'll find that a man can rape a woman but a woman cannot rape a man. The legalities are I believe, tied up in the act itself, if a man is capable and aroused for the act, it is deemed that he is an 'active' party and in effect consenting. (bit like the soccer offside rule).
Abuse of power, threatening wrongful dismissal, etc, etc is something else and is not called rape.
Get many immigrants up on the central coast? Refugees pour into Port Stephens after the marlin boats have gone? Big Harry importing cheap labour is he?
I found another interesting one:
Eremis (from Mordant's Need) is an anagram of "I, Esmer". In addition, Eremis was Master Eremis and Esmer could be said to be a Master by virtue of his heritage. This could well imply a connection between the two and the roles they play in the story.
A big Mordant's Need spoiler follows:
I also have a truly radical theory about Esmer in the works...
Eremis (from Mordant's Need) is an anagram of "I, Esmer". In addition, Eremis was Master Eremis and Esmer could be said to be a Master by virtue of his heritage. This could well imply a connection between the two and the roles they play in the story.
A big Mordant's Need spoiler follows:
Spoiler
Master Eremis was known to have certain character flaws but he turned out to be the undercover main villain behind everyone's troubles and much worse than anyone had suspected. Now I don't think Esmer will be worse than Lord Foul - Eremis of the anagram-connection was only human rather than something like an evil god - but I think there is reason to suspect Esmer is a major force of evil behind all of his talk about having to do both good and evil.