After Dune

[Worm of Despite]

The only "meaty, epic" science-fiction books I've ever read are the 6 Dune books. I tried Foundation, couldn't get very far into it. I've also read 1984 (just finished it), but it's not the kind of space opera I'm looking for.

Thus, I come with roughly 30$ and an empty opinion that needs filling. Tell Foul what science fiction book to read next. Not that creamy, light fare, either. Something thick and nutty.

[danlo]

You guessed it: Neverness!!! (followed by the Requiem For Homo Sapiens trilogy)

[Ainulindale]

If you liked Dune you will probably enjoy Brian Aldss's Helliconia Trilogy, consisting of Helliconia Spring, Helliconia Summer, Helliconia Winter and probably Scott Westerfield's Succession duology starting with The Risen Empire and concluded with The Killing of Worlds

The best Space Opera in my estimation is Iain M. Banks' Culture sequence which includes Consider Phlebas, The Player of Games, The State of the Art (a collection), Use of Weapons, Excession , Inversions, Look to Windward.

Some others I like:

The Golden AgeTrilogy by John C. Wright
The Night's Dawn Trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton
Fall Revolution by Ken Macleod
Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons

[The Somberlain]

The best Space Opera in my estimation is Iain M. Banks' Culture sequence which includes Consider Phlebas, The Player of Games, The State of the Art (a collection), Use of Weapons, Excession , Inversions, Look to Windward.

You know where it's at

[Fist and Faith]

As danlo says, the Neverness books are the very pinnacle of literature. It is known.

[Worm of Despite]

Yeah, gonna have to find Neverness one day. I've checked at B&N several times. Will have to get 'er over the Net, it seems. Sadly, the credit card has enough to juggle, for the time being.

Anyway, to further aid sci-fi recommendations: I'm looking for something that deals with/has elements of artificial intelligence. Thankies.

[The Somberlain]

The Culture novels deal very much with Artificial Intelligence Consider Phlebas and Excession in particular.

[Worm of Despite]

Drats. I just remembered Heinlein and Philip K. Dick. This changes everything. Heh. Well, after I read them, then I'm gonna go on a quest to read Culture and Neverness. Will probably not get to 'em until the summer, though, since this spring will be full of college reading. Don't let that deter more recommendations, though, as I'm noting everything/checking it out in my systematic, Foul fashion.

[Fist and Faith]

If you're really getting into the Tao Te Ching, don't forget Le Guin's Earthsea series. It's nothing but that put into a fantasy form. Awesome magic and dragons; calm, deep wisdom of taoism. Not space opera, or course, nor even sci-fi. It's six books long, fairly short (none much more than 300 pages), all very quick reads.

[The Somberlain]

If you're really getting into the Tao Te Ching, don't forget Le Guin's Earthsea series. It's nothing but that put into a fantasy form. Awesome magic and dragons; calm, deep wisdom of taoism. Not space opera, or course, nor even sci-fi. It's six books long, fairly short (none much more than 300 pages), all very quick reads.

Six books...? I have the "Earthsea Quartet". Though I only ever read the first one, when I was about 7 or 8. I liked it lots, then the second one (The Tombs of something?) I couldn't get into. Maybe I'll try it again.

[Fist and Faith]

In the order they need to be read, the books are:

A Wizard of Earthsea
The Tombs of Atuan
The Farthest Shore
Tehanu
Dragonfly**
The Other Wind

**Dragonfly is a novella that can be found in a collection called Tales from Earthsea. Tales has some other stories set in the archipelago that are not part of the story arc of the six listed above. However, at least a couple of them are FANTASTIC, and all are at least very good.

I understand your problem with The Tombs of Atuan. More than the first half of it does not have Ged, the main character of the first book. But the girl it is centered on is extremely important after The Farthest Shore, so it's good to know her. You may have a similar problem with Tehanu. But some people (danlo is one, iirc) say Tehanu is their favorite. Even if you don't end up considering either of them your favorites (they're not mine), I assume it's been at least several years since you were 7 or 8, and your range of what you find enjoyable, or at least acceptable, may have broadened since then. Meh? And anyway, Ged is in the last half of The Tombs of Atuan, and is again the star in The Farthest Shore.

[matrixman]

I recommend Arthur C. Clarke's Rama books, LF . It's about alien intelligence rather than artificial intelligence, but the books nevertheless touch on it. Heck, just enjoy the books for the marvelous intelligence of Clarke.

Rendezvous With Rama
Rama II
The Garden of Rama
Rama Revealed

I bring up Clarke's name every so often because no one else at the Watch cares much for his work (except maybe danlo, but I believe he has said he hasn't read the Rama series).

Rendezvous With Rama is an all-time classic, but I came upon it only a few years ago, and instantly fell in love with it. It's a slender novel, but that's because Clarke is not a waster of words. The novel won Clarke the Hugo and Nebula award in 1973. I'm really not a devourer of science fiction literature as many here are, so I don't follow these awards, but I understand that they are like the summit of critical acclaim in the field.

It wasn't until the '80s that Clarke wrote the Rama sequel volumes with collaborator Gentry Lee. Not that the original was fluff by any means, but if you want a "thick and nutty" saga, then the subsequent books could certainly fit the bill. And things do get pretty nutty in the first sequel, Rama II.

The Garden of Rama drags a little. I think it's a case of Clarke's own effortless, lucid writing being compromised by his inexperienced partner Lee. Nevertheless, the book sets the stage nicely for an awesome conclusion in Rama Revealed.

However, LF, if you really don't want to read Rama, you could just wait for the movie to be made. I think it's in development hell right now, but as far as I know, director David Fincher and actor Morgan Freeman are still committed to the project.

And don't forget that other wonderful series by Clarke -- the Odyssey novels:

2001: A Space Odyssey
2010: Odyssey Two
2061: Odyssey Three
3001: The Final Odyssey

3001 is slightly controversial (and potentially offensive to some) because it takes place in a future where religion has been completely abolished from human society. (Heh, it's Clarke in full, unrepentant atheist mode. You've got something to say about atheism, don't you, LF? ) However, Clarke really doesn't delve into some vast history of the fall of religion in the book. It's just not his style. He's a storyteller, not a historian like Herbert or Tolkien.

[Avatar]

Some good recommendations there...I wholeheartedly endorse Danlo's recommendation, I enjoyed the one Heliconia (Spring) that I read when I got into it, and of course, I strongly recommend Heinlein, (although not epic in the sense of long series.)

Oh yeah, the Nights Dawn books were great too, even if one premise was a little...unbelievable.

I've tended to enjoy the clarke books I've read too, although to be honest, I'm hard-pressed to name them, (Sorry MM ).

Happy Reading.

--A

[The Somberlain]

In the order they need to be read, the books are:

A Wizard of Earthsea
The Tombs of Atuan
The Farthest Shore
Tehanu
Dragonfly**
The Other Wind

**Dragonfly is a novella that can be found in a collection called Tales from Earthsea. Tales has some other stories set in the archipelago that are not part of the story arc of the six listed above. However, at least a couple of them are FANTASTIC, and all are at least very good.

I understand your problem with The Tombs of Atuan. More than the first half of it does not have Ged, the main character of the first book. But the girl it is centered on is extremely important after The Farthest Shore, so it's good to know her. You may have a similar problem with Tehanu. But some people (danlo is one, iirc) say Tehanu is their favorite. Even if you don't end up considering either of them your favorites (they're not mine), I assume it's been at least several years since you were 7 or 8, and your range of what you find enjoyable, or at least acceptable, may have broadened since then. Meh? And anyway, Ged is in the last half of The Tombs of Atuan, and is again the star in The Farthest Shore.

That'd be a good 10/11 years ago, yep. I'll definitely give them another try soon.

[Worm of Despite]

Okay, I've narrowed it down to either Earthsea or Hyperion. Gotta finish these four books I'm reading right now, though. Two by Philip K. Dick and two by Heinlein. Great stuff.

[Avatar]

What Heinlein are you reading? Oh yeah, there's a thread in here on him here in this forum, (in case you wanna revive it afterwards. )

--A

[lucimay]

Fist says,

the girl it is centered on is extremely important after The Farthest Shore, so it's good to know her. You may have a similar problem with Tehanu. But some people (danlo is one, iirc) say Tehanu is their favorite.

i would be one of those.

i would say tenar and ged share the series as protagonists, Fist. i just happened upon Tehanu for 99 cents in the goodwill bin. i wasn't really that interested in wizards and magic at the time. felt i'd been there, read that. but the writing in this book (20 years and several other books after the original first 3) is LeGuin at the top of her game AND it has an extraordinary female protagonist. a woman of age and substance. i had never read LeGuin before this book, had in fact, looked at it and NOT been interested.
incidentally...this was one of my reading marathons. i read it in a days time. and two weeks later i met LeGuin at a signing for The Telling, which was also an excellent read with a female protagonist.
needless to say, i am now a serious LeGuin proponant.

and just to make a suggestion to Lord Foul, have you read the Bakker books? i would describe them as meaty. of course it's not science fiction.
i'm fond of Gibson. Did you read Pattern Recognition? of course, there's always Stephenson. i love Snowcrash. just suggestions, mind.

[Loredoctor]

Hyperion/Endymion series. The Gap sequence. The Uplift series. My series (when it's done).

[Avatar]

My series (when it's done).

We're waiting.

--A

[Worm of Despite]

What Heinlein are you reading?

Finished Starship Troopers today; starting on Philip K. Dick's The Man in the High Castle. After that, going to go onto Stranger in a Strange Land. Then I'll bounce back to Dick and read The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch. Three decently-thick books; can I do it all before January 6? The heat is on!

and just to make a suggestion to Lord Foul, have you read the Bakker books? i would describe them as meaty. of course it's not science fiction.
i'm fond of Gibson. Did you read Pattern Recognition? of course, there's always Stephenson. i love Snowcrash. just suggestions, mind.

Thanks! Will check 'em all out.

So, my reading list until May: The Man in the High Castle, Stranger in a Strange Land, The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, Asimov's Foundation Trilogy (if I end up liking the first three, I'll get Foundation's Edge). Also, will read Philip K. Dick's Ubik in between all that.

By May, I'll be in Britain for a month or so; while there, I'm going to finish my re-read of the Second Chrons (life caused me to stop in the middle of the One Tree).

Once all that mess is done, I'll probably jump into The Earthsea Cycle or The Hyperion Cantos. Going to keep that very much in the open, cause I like at least a little freedom in my reading list. Plus, never know what might drop on my head--such as SRD's next TC book!