The Gradual Interview

[wayfriend]

Syl found the quote that I was going to look for. SRD's answer doesnt' make sense, based on this what Kasreyn comments about the wild magic.

No contradiction. Kasreyn could simply take Covenant's ring. It just would just not be anywhere near as powerful ... for Kasreyn ... as it would be if Covenant gave it to him. It would be 'valueless' because it would not be as much as Kasreyn needs to work on the live forever thing. Kasreyn don't want no Walmart bling!

[drew]

Well Kas had already done so much with plain old Yellow gold (took over a city state; controlled (and possibly made the Hustin); the whole Sandgorgan's Doom thing.
Obviously he had some big plans for the White Gold--so it needed it to be given freely-so he could controll it all, not just make a little lightening bolt like Troy did.

[wayfriend]

Right o. Think of it this way. If you only get one crack at it, would you settle for wimpy stolen white gold, or would you angle for the awesome freely given white gold? (Hint: you're middle name is Ambition.)

[[Syl]]

If someone else (e.g. dead Elena) takes the ring and chooses to use it, s/he may eventually damage enough Laws in enough different ways to make the whole system crumble.

Sounds like the ring still has plenty of power to achieve what he wanted. And this outlook fits perfectly with why Wildwood stopped Troy. If we want to justify it, I think it would be easier to say that Kasreyn just thought it would be worthless. After all, if he used pure gold to get the info, then the info has to be flawed.

[Avatar]

Good post Syl.

--A

[Seareach]

For all those who want some SRD advice on getting your novels published

Jo: I have completed the first book of a two book series. I have let family and friends read it and asked for honest opinions which on the whole have been positve. The problem is I cant seem to find a publisher because I dont have an agent and this is my first publication - and I cant seem to get an agent because I dont have a publisher interested in my work - can you offer any advice?


It's true that the current publishing climate militates against people in your position. Life is full of exceptions (and miracles), but in general neither editors nor agents can afford the time and effort to look at unsolicited manuscripts.

Of course, you can always go the "small press" route (although I have no idea how that works in practical terms). You can go the "vanity press" route, which has always carried a stigma. You can go the "e-publishing" or "published on demand" routes, but both of those methodologies are still in their infancy (so there are still a lot of problems to be solved). I can't advise you about any of those approaches.

What I *can* do is describe the generally-accepted paradigm for coping with your problem. With (many) variations, it goes like this:

First, you acquire a "credential" of some kind. You win a fiction contest. You earn an MFA in creative writing. You get a story published in a "literary" (i.e. non-paying) magazine. You survive a nationally-televised hostage situation. (OK, I don't recommend that one.) SOMEthing to make a professional reader think you know what you're doing.

Second--or first, if the other "first" is out of the question--you concentrate on writing short stories and submitting them to magazines. Magazine editors--especially in sf/f--read (and even accept) unsolicited, unagented manuscripts all the time. To your "credential," you attempt to add a "track record." In the old days, they used to say that you should sell short stories steadily for five years before you try to sell a novel. That seems rather extreme to me; but who knows?

Third, "track record" in hand (because the real purpose of the "credential" is to help you acquire a "track record"), you approach an agent with your novel. If you have a "track record," most agents *will* read your novel, for the obvious reason that they can believe they won't be wasting their time.

Of course, if you are Blessed By The Gods, your short stories will be published by an editor who raves about you to an editor who publishes novels. In that case, you'll be able to show your novel directly to an editor. (But, I hasten to add, you'll still want an agent. As soon as an editor says, "Yes, I want to publish you," you should take your novel to a good agent. The agent will almost certainly accept you as a client, since you've already broken the initial ice--and after that you'll *have* an agent, which solves an enormous number of problems down the road.)

Or, if you're blessed with extraordinary personal charm and persuasiveness, you can try to meet an actual editor (say, at an sf/f convention)--or an actual agent--and see if you can talk him/her into reading your manuscript. When this works, it works well because of the personal connection. But it doesn't work often.

And trying to gain the support of some other writer or writers never works. Most writers are notoriously idiosyncratic readers, and both editors and agents have good reason not to trust them.

Are you discouraged yet? <sigh>

(02/04/2006)

[Spring]

Is there a link here, somewhere?

[wayfriend]

If someone else (e.g. dead Elena) takes the ring and chooses to use it, s/he may eventually damage enough Laws in enough different ways to make the whole system crumble.

Sounds like the ring still has plenty of power to achieve what he wanted. And this outlook fits perfectly with why Wildwood stopped Troy. If we want to justify it, I think it would be easier to say that Kasreyn just thought it would be worthless. After all, if he used pure gold to get the info, then the info has to be flawed.

If you notice, the Elena-version of Foul's plan isn't very precise, is extremely indirect, isn't guaranteed to work, and can only qualify as working in Foul's favor because Foul's goal is armageddon - a situation which any number of scenarios can tend towards. (And that's not even mentioning the mystery of what would happen if the Earth is destroyed and Foul doesn't have the ring.) Kasreyn's ambition was to live forever; in many ways, this is a much more focused and precise ambition, if not as lofty. Kasreyn can't be thinking he can stumble into it randomly. Therefore, in his situation I would presume it's given while gold or bust.

[Menolly]

Is there a link here, somewhere?

To the GI, Spring?

Gradual Interview

[Spring]

XD Thanks!

[Xar]

If someone else (e.g. dead Elena) takes the ring and chooses to use it, s/he may eventually damage enough Laws in enough different ways to make the whole system crumble.

Sounds like the ring still has plenty of power to achieve what he wanted. And this outlook fits perfectly with why Wildwood stopped Troy. If we want to justify it, I think it would be easier to say that Kasreyn just thought it would be worthless. After all, if he used pure gold to get the info, then the info has to be flawed.

If you notice, the Elena-version of Foul's plan isn't very precise, is extremely indirect, isn't guaranteed to work, and can only qualify as working in Foul's favor because Foul's goal is armageddon - a situation which any number of scenarios can tend towards. (And that's not even mentioning the mystery of what would happen if the Earth is destroyed and Foul doesn't have the ring.) Kasreyn's ambition was to live forever; in many ways, this is a much more focused and precise ambition, if not as lofty. Kasreyn can't be thinking he can stumble into it randomly. Therefore, in his situation I would presume it's given while gold or bust.

I would tend to presume that Kasreyn would have attempted to persuade Covenant to give him the ring willingly, anyway: for starters, that would have given him access to far more power (which he craved, and which - for all we know - could be needed for the live forever thing); besides, even if the ploy had failed, as a last resort he could have always taken the ring from an unwilling Covenant - gaining less power, but still gaining something. In short, I think he had nothing to lose in attempting to persuade Covenant to give him the ring willingly: if things had not worked out, he probably was sure he could take the ring himself anyway.

Oh, and an aside about Foul: if the world were destroyed without Foul getting the ring, I don't think that would affect him much. He needs the ring to breach the Arch of Time, not to survive the cataclysmic destruction of the world. If he's truly a primeval, cosmological entity like the Creator, he is neither bound nor affected by the destiny of the world, and such an event would likely affect him as much as the explosion of a balloon would affect us if we were standing close to it.

In fact, I wonder... in the First Chronicles especially, although it was pointed out often that wild magic was a thing of the world ("graven in every rock"), and that it was part of the world's foundations (the keystone of the Arch), it was said once or twice that Foul's intentions would have been to use the ring also afterwards, in his attack on the Creator. So, given that Foul's intelligence and cosmological knowledge should enable him to realize whether wild magic is indeed inherent to the world or is some sort of "primeval power" which permeates the void where he and the Creator existed even before the world was made, and given that most clues suggest the former as the correct hypothesis, why was it thought that Foul would attempt to use the ring even after the destruction of the world?

[Revan]

Revan: Hi Stephen.
I've been looking over your bad characters lately, and when i read aboutpeople like Eremis and Holt Fasner, I wonder, can all their hungers and amibition ever be fulfilled. Would they ever have the ability ro sit back and say, "That's enough?"

My second question is this: If they did achieve all their hearts desires, what kind of people would they be? Would they become self-destructive; considering the seeking and longing for power and/or are the only things that they strive for?

Cheers - Revan





If I may pretend to quote from a textbook for a moment: "It is characteristic of profound and systemic narcissism that it can never be satisfied." In the course of my life, I'm met far too many people who were/are, in essence, black holes. If they could do it, they would devour the entire created cosmos--and then feel sorry for themselves because they deserve more.

Eremis and Holt Fasner may have enough mental toughness to avoid self-pity. (Nick Succorso, on the other hand, does not.) Nevertheless I suspect that a) their hungers could never be satisfied, and b) any surrender to an unappeasable appetite is inherently self-destructive. Look at any dictator. I have a few hungers like that myself, so I think I know what I'm talking about. What saves me (if you accept the unsupported assertion that I'm *not* Eremis or Holt or Nick <grin>) is that I decline to be ruled by the abyss within.

(01/20/2006)


Nice answer!

I liked it, gives us a more profound understanding of the types of person(s) Holt and Eremis are.



btw, I've been think of splitting this topic into several topics, Gap GI, Thomas Covenant GI... be a lot of work, but I don't mind, what do you think?

[Creator]

I'm dealing with a "reality" which is inextricably bound to the mind(s) of my protagonist(s). According the rules I've created, we simply *can't* have the Land without Covenant/Linden.

Runes related comment - DO NOT READ, if you don't want a Runes spoiler!!

Spoiler

Now this is an interesting concept - especially since Linden will most likely be DEAD in the "real" world. Hmmmm ... I wonder how much "LAND" time passes as Linden gasps her last breaths *I know, pleasant thought Jay *

How much of the Land's problems are due to Linden's death throes?

[dlbpharmd]

Interesting point, Creator. In 1st Chronicles the Land and Covenant were linked, but in 2nd Chronicles the plight of the Land seemed to be more closely linked with Joan that Covenant. I tend to think the same is true for Final Chronicles as well.

[Nerdanel]

Wow, that was a revelation from SRD.

Spoiler

I had never been sure that Linden was truly shot in the heart or if she had ALMOST been shot in the heart but maybe the shot had hit the white gold ring which absorbed a part of the force and then the bullet hit a rib after which it only scratched one edge of the heart muscle or something which might only land her in Intensive Care if the cops present know enough first aid or the Creator intervenes.

Well, maybe SRD is being really misleading with a not-so-rhetorical rhetorical question, but it sure sounds like Linden is a goner. Or a Christ figure.

[Creator]

And from the same response from SRD

Spoiler

At the end of the "Runes" Prologue, Linden is shot through the heart. In what sense is she not "truly dead"?

[duchess of malfi]

Revan, that was a great question. I hope you also post it, and the answer, in that wonderful old "What is evil?" thread kicking around in the TC forum.

[Furls Fire]

Wow...

Spoiler

Um, I wonder if he really meant to reveal that much, or...

Or maybe, it just should have been obvious that she was going to die or is dead...

[Nerdanel]

Spoiler

These are fantasy novels. In this kind of thing you don't safely assume that someone is dead until you get a good look at their very clearly dead corpse, and even them magic could interfere, depending on the rules.

Ending a chapter on someone "seeing no more" and having them be merely unconscious is an old trick. Tolkien used it more than once. The First Chronicles uses a variant in the snakebite case. I thought that Linden's successful escape from the burning house might symbolize her escape from the Land when it falls apart, but perhaps she escapes as a ghost or escapes to somewhere else than the "real world".

[Avatar]

...in that wonderful old "What is evil?" thread kicking around in the TC forum.

Just so you know Duchess, (and anybody who is interested), that one now resides in the Close.

--A