What is it you believe?

Post by **Prebe** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:22 pm

Most creationists Cybrweez, but obviously not all. Quoting myself here (sorry) from the What Is Evolution thread:

I see now that there are varying degrees of creationism. Ranging from those who believe that God sparked the big bang, and then everything evolved from there. In the other end of the scale we have people believing in Genesis quite literally. And, to make things even more confusing, it seems that all intermediate forms are represented.

It seems, if you will forgive the term, that creationism is evolving with science, branching into groups separated by what science they trust. This makes it very hard to debate without inadvertently insulting someone by generalisation.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:04 pm

Cybrweez wrote:
Fist and Faith wrote:Why would a creator want to create something that never changes?
I don't understand this. Who claims a creator created something that never changes?

Regarding life, many believe that life has not and does not change - that the species alive today have been alive since the beginning of life - that God created life as it exists at the moment in such a way that it won't and can't change. I'm saying that I imagine a being capable of greater things and thinking than we are would likely want its creation to be more complex and exciting than something that doesn't change. So I wouldn't be surprised if such a being built evolution into the system, and therefore don't see that belief in a creator need rule out belief in evolution.

Post by **Cybrweez** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:36 pm

Fist and Faith wrote:Regarding life, many believe that life has not and does not change - that the species alive today have been alive since the beginning of life - that God created life as it exists at the moment in such a way that it won't and can't change.

I haven't come across those that believe species don't evolve. I'm sure there are some, but must be a small percentage. Small enough to not even mention along w/creationism.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:32 pm

Cyberweez, there are plenty of people who do not believe species evolve. All Jehovah's Witnesses, for example. I'm sure other denominations of Christianity also do not believe it. (I'll have to ask my brother, an Evangelical Presbyterean minister, because they're rather fundamentalist.) I have thought some Watchers did not believe in evolution. I've asked here a few times. This, from page 11 of Kins' "Answers to Creationist Nonsense" thread, was when I asked you specifically:

Fist and Faith wrote:CYBERWEEZ

Just trying to get your attention. Nobody arguing against the existence of evolution has answered me yet, so I'm singling one of you - you - out.
Cybrweez wrote:Its been stated here that evolution, and I'm assuming macro-evolution is meant, is a fact. Man, even just saying that makes me laugh. Some are just curious where macro-evolution has been observed.

............

But I'm questioning evolution, b/c of the many problems. Whether there is a God or not doesn't deal w/the issue of problems in evolution.
As Foul has said, there are two issues:
1) There is the fact of evolution. Life has changed over time.

2) There are some theories that try to understand how these changes occurred. (The most popular of which is, I suppose, random mutation and natural selection.)

MY QUESTION, AGAIN, NOW TO YOU, IS:
Do you agree with #1? Do you think life on the planet is the same now as it has been since life began (regardless of how it began) on the planet? Do you think human beings have existed, looking and behaving exactly as we do now, as long as there has been life? Do you think every species of plant and animal has existed, in the exact forms they now have, since the beginning of life?

You'll have to forgive my misunderstanding people's position on this if they don't answer. I also asked on page 4 of that thread, and I think somewhere else that I can't remember. I truly don't care what anyone believes, I'm just trying to understand what they believe.

Post by **Prebe** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:42 am

Way to keep up the spirit FistOF.
But I give in. Why are people, who claim to be believers just so afraid to admit they believe?

"Is a little blind faith to much to ask?" (rev. Timothy Lovejoy)

Post by **The Laughing Man** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:24 am

Prebe wrote:Way to keep up the spirit FistOF.
But I give in. Why are people, who claim to be believers just so afraid to admit they believe?

"Is a little blind faith to much to ask?" (rev. Timothy Lovejoy)

blind faith is the only kind there is....

did you mean "claim to NOT be believers"? I wonder why too, strictly speaking ONLY of those "unbelievers" who really DO "believe", not the ones who really DO "not believe". heh.

Post by **Prebe** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:55 am

No THe Esmer. I was talking about all the religious people people who try to back their religious dogma using science (most often in vain I might add).

I wonder why too, strictly speaking ONLY of those "unbelievers" who really DO "believe", not the ones who really DO "not believe".

That is a question I would not venture to answer for others, but very interesting. For myself, I will say that it was a leap - not of faith but of comfort - to become an atheist. I will not say that I still seriously think about the existence of a higher power, but I still find myself conversing the "big bearded guy" that the (very gentle) indoctrination from my school conjured. In fact I have completely rejected the existence off a non personified higher power, but I (by habbit) still find myself thinking of the personified Chritian deity. Truly Odd!

Post by **The Laughing Man** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:05 am

interesting...much. Leap of comfort,, I like that.

Post by **Prom_STar** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:19 pm

well, now that i've made my Close debut, I suppose it's time to post here.

I am a Christian. I believe God made the world. Man rebelled against Him (sinned) and thus earned the just penalty of death (hell). I believe God sent His one and only to die for our sins and now we can go to heaven if we only accept that sacrfice.
I dabbled in atheism for a while. But all I got was empty. Now I walk through life with Christ. Whatever may come my way I know
I am redeemed.

Post by **Avatar** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:35 am

Welcome to the Close.

Always nice to have new folks participating in here. I look forward to it.

--A

Post by **sgt.null** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:53 am

welcome to the Close prom. nice to have another believer here. there are a few scattered here.

Post by **Marv** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:56 am

at the moment

i am an agnostic existentialist.

i believe that humans are the only things without a predetermined meaning(or essence) but we can choose to give our lives meaning. however, to do so through concepts like religion and science is simply a way of not taking responsibility for our actions.

i do not believe or disbelieve in God. i simply think that it doesn't matter whether a God exists.

Post by **lucimay** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:17 am

Tazzman wrote: i do not believe or disbelieve in God. i simply think that it doesn't matter whether a God exists.

ah grasshoppah, you are on the path...welcome.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:33 am

Huh, never posted in this thread. I'm a secular humanist thru and thru I suppose. My wife is a buddhist so we get along wonderfully. I am whole and complete and fulfilled. I do good simply because I like the idea and will turn down any reward for it when offered. Don't believe in much of anything supernatural because I haven't seen it, seems rather silly to me, and I feel like I've got more important things to keep me busy.

Post by **Prebe** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:38 am

but we can choose to give our lives meaning. however, to do so through concepts like religion and science is simply a way of not taking responsibility for our actions.

Got any other good ways of giving our life meaning?

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:53 pm

Sure. You can devote your life to whatever you want - business, writing, sex, murder, pleasure, music, drugs, - it's your choice.

Post by **Avatar** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:34 am

And is every choice equally valid for the person who makes it?

--A

Post by **sgt.null** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:25 pm

subjective theory again? there is a difference between choosing to help the poor and sitting in your room wishing things better. but to each person their choice may seem valid. in practicle use we find this untrue.

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:48 pm

And is every choice equally valid for the person who makes it?

Absolutely.

Post by **Avatar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:51 am

So it's equally acceptable for a person to find meaning in the unrestrained consumption of drugs as in the helping of others?

--A

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

What is it you believe?