From The Power That Preserves, we have this description of Foul:
"a being who loathed life, not because it was any threat to him, but because its mortal infestations offended the defining passion of his existence."
Have we ever heard, officially, just what this defining passion is?
Cheers,
Dagonet
Defining Passion. . . ?
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It is of course possible that the concept was changed slightly - after all, SRD didn't expect he would write the SC when he got to TPTP. But I do think that Foul is actually a very passional entity. If he seems cold, it's just because he loathes and feels contempt for those who live in his prison; but the passion with which he tried to blast the Arch of Time at the end of the SC speaks eloquently of the yearning, the burning desire, and the rage he feels inside.
What I meant was that Lord Foul has a passion for cold perfection.
Consider the architecture and detail of Ridjeck Thome. I think they reveal a lot of Lord Foul's personality, which Covenant also was able to discern in the scene in question.
The cleverly-planned labyrinthine designs and secret passages tell of a meticulous and innovative cunning that tries to have plans prepared for every eventuality. (Like we hadn't learned that already...)
The empty perfection and smooth lack of ornamentation of any kind tell that Foul isn't at all like some more human villain like Kasreyn of the Gyre. Foul likes perfectly symmetrical and featureless room with nothing in them. Compared to that, mere human beings must look awfully messy. Even Giants can't work stone like that. In many things Lord Foul has higher standards than the Haruchai and all life falls short. From the context I think it's clear that Covenant caught a glimpse of just that.
Consider the architecture and detail of Ridjeck Thome. I think they reveal a lot of Lord Foul's personality, which Covenant also was able to discern in the scene in question.
The cleverly-planned labyrinthine designs and secret passages tell of a meticulous and innovative cunning that tries to have plans prepared for every eventuality. (Like we hadn't learned that already...)
The empty perfection and smooth lack of ornamentation of any kind tell that Foul isn't at all like some more human villain like Kasreyn of the Gyre. Foul likes perfectly symmetrical and featureless room with nothing in them. Compared to that, mere human beings must look awfully messy. Even Giants can't work stone like that. In many things Lord Foul has higher standards than the Haruchai and all life falls short. From the context I think it's clear that Covenant caught a glimpse of just that.
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Zarathustra
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Isn't his defining passion the desire to be free? And since he is imprisoned within Time, mortal beings offend him because they represent his predicament: creatures of freewill who transcend the mortal world, and yet are still constrained by it.
Remember, Foul is an archetype. He represents one way in which we can react towards our own "imprisonment" within this mortal, limited flesh. Our own defining passion is to be free, to be unlimited in both potential and in lifepsan. Yet, we must constantly confront the fact that both our power and our life is essentially limited. We can either despair/despise this fact (LF's choice), or we can choose to celebrate life in spite of its essentially limited nature. Covenant was on the "razor's edge"--just as we all are--because he could have gone either way.
Remember, Foul is an archetype. He represents one way in which we can react towards our own "imprisonment" within this mortal, limited flesh. Our own defining passion is to be free, to be unlimited in both potential and in lifepsan. Yet, we must constantly confront the fact that both our power and our life is essentially limited. We can either despair/despise this fact (LF's choice), or we can choose to celebrate life in spite of its essentially limited nature. Covenant was on the "razor's edge"--just as we all are--because he could have gone either way.
I think talking about Lord Foul's desire to be free is bringing something to the scene that isn't there. The whole freedom angle doesn't get that much play in the First Chronicles.
I think perhaps getting free is Foul's #1 current concern, but his defining passion of cold perfection would remain with him even if he ever freed himself, because it's what deep down makes him what he is and gives him the ability to despise everything.
I think perhaps getting free is Foul's #1 current concern, but his defining passion of cold perfection would remain with him even if he ever freed himself, because it's what deep down makes him what he is and gives him the ability to despise everything.
I'm with Nerdanel on this one. While Foul's (occasionally insane) desire to escape the confines of the Arch underlies pretty much everything he does, I'd say it's a result of his passion, rather than the passion itself.
Actually, I think Foul and Kasreyn are *very* similar--each of them has a consuming desire to create perfect, flawless works. The difference is that (presumably) Foul was actually able to do so before the Creator stuffed him into the Arch. Foul's Creche is as close as the Despiser can get to a perfect creation within the limits of time--uninhabited, unsullied by beings who eat and sleep and make a mess, it's still flawed (the crusty/gross throne).
Of course, if Foul (as opposed to the Creator) is the one who creates perfect works, that puts an interesting spin on those mysterious, hidden banes spread throughout the fabric of creation. . .
Xar and Malik23, if Foul hates the inhabitants of The Land because they represent his prison, is he really a *Despiser*? Don't you typically despise from a position of superiority, rather than a position of envy or anger? I've always gotten the impression that Foul despises, well, everyone else because he [considers himself] BETTER than they are.
Actually, I think Foul and Kasreyn are *very* similar--each of them has a consuming desire to create perfect, flawless works. The difference is that (presumably) Foul was actually able to do so before the Creator stuffed him into the Arch. Foul's Creche is as close as the Despiser can get to a perfect creation within the limits of time--uninhabited, unsullied by beings who eat and sleep and make a mess, it's still flawed (the crusty/gross throne).
Of course, if Foul (as opposed to the Creator) is the one who creates perfect works, that puts an interesting spin on those mysterious, hidden banes spread throughout the fabric of creation. . .
Xar and Malik23, if Foul hates the inhabitants of The Land because they represent his prison, is he really a *Despiser*? Don't you typically despise from a position of superiority, rather than a position of envy or anger? I've always gotten the impression that Foul despises, well, everyone else because he [considers himself] BETTER than they are.
Although the throne was not originally "crusty"; as I recall, it was said that the throne was twisted and moulded due to the malice and despite Foul radiated for ages while sitting there - basically, it was Foul's scorn that was so powerful that mere stone could not contain it and was warped as a result. I wonder if Foul felt disgusted by the throne (because it wasn't perfect) or if he considered it a sign of his power and a mark of his contempt...Dagonet wrote:Actually, I think Foul and Kasreyn are *very* similar--each of them has a consuming desire to create perfect, flawless works. The difference is that (presumably) Foul was actually able to do so before the Creator stuffed him into the Arch. Foul's Creche is as close as the Despiser can get to a perfect creation within the limits of time--uninhabited, unsullied by beings who eat and sleep and make a mess, it's still flawed (the crusty/gross throne).
Well, I figure that Foul feels both anger and envy, but also superiority. From his point of view, he's in a prison where the ants are more free than he is, because they are not constrained like he is - the prison is to them their natural habitat, like the void (presumably) would be Foul's. So basically my idea is that he's envious of the freedom of the Land's people, and he's also furious because he's superior to them, and yet suffers much more than they do.Dagonet wrote:Xar and Malik23, if Foul hates the inhabitants of The Land because they represent his prison, is he really a *Despiser*? Don't you typically despise from a position of superiority, rather than a position of envy or anger? I've always gotten the impression that Foul despises, well, everyone else because he [considers himself] BETTER than they are.