Null's grudge with scientists. Take 5.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:26 pm

Why is it hokum? It may be the most logical explanation for that situation. I've heard it numerous times before and most of the Jews I've talked to say that is a common belief.

Post by **wayfriend** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:27 pm

Kinslaughterer wrote:Why is it hokum? It may be the most logical explanation for that situation. I've heard it numerous times before and most of the Jews I've talked to say that is a common belief.

Why does it have to mean "Son Of God"? Why not "a son of God"? As in, another son? That Jesus is the only son of God was another later add-in. Jesus taught us to call God "our Father" - aren't we all then his son or daughter? So Barrabas would be another son of God, hence worth saving.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:34 pm

Could be, but that term is not used spiritually only physically. Besides, Jesus never called him Barabbas but everyone one else did including Pilate.

Post by **Avatar** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:39 am

Very interesting.

If we leave out all issues of religion, mysticism, and so on, I must say that I've always found Kin's reasoning to be the most historically "sensible." That Jesus was looking for an overthrow of Roman power etc. I mean, Judas "The Dagger," Simon the Zealot, (and we know who the Zealots were, don't we? In those days, it didn't just mean "enthusiastic.

), and so forth.

Historically speaking, I'm even fond of the idea that Jesus was a rebel who sought the mantle of religious support, (he was a Jew, remember?) for an attempt at Judaic independance, a big issue in those days.

Unfortunately, this purely historical Jesus leaves little or no room for the messianic Jesus who remained to history.

--A

Post by **Prebe** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:16 am

Avatar wrote:and we know who the Zealots were, don't we?

Sure. They are the upgraded monks from Heroes of Might and Magic III

Post by **Avatar** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:22 am

Right! And also of course:

Zealots were a Jewish political movement in the 1st century AD which sought to incite the people of Iudaea Province to rebel against the Roman Empire and expel it from the country by force of arms during the Great Jewish Revolt (AD 66-70). When the Romans introduced the imperial cult, the Jews had rebelled and been put down. The Zealots continued to oppose the Romans, on the grounds that Israel belonged only to a Jewish king descended from David.

Hmm, a Jewish King descended from David...sound like anybody to you?

--A

Post by **Loredoctor** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:30 am

Prebe wrote:
Avatar wrote:and we know who the Zealots were, don't we?
Sure. They are the upgraded monks from Heroes of Might and Magic III

Post by **sgt.null** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:27 pm

av: of course the best answer may be the one set forth. although the hokum is entertaining. might make for a good movie.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:51 pm

Depends on what one considers "hokum" doesn't it?
A logical answer or a supernatural one...which is more reasonable?

Post by **sgt.null** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:55 pm

maybe you are frustrated with the inability of science to answer all questions, including the supernatural ones.

Post by **Loredoctor** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:06 pm

sgtnull wrote:maybe you are frustrated with the inability of science to answer all questions, including the supernatural ones.

Null, you really like pushing it, don't you? Just stop antagonising everything. You talk about how your beliefs are being persecuted yet constantly go on the attack of science.

Post by **Revan** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:11 am

sgtnull wrote:maybe you are frustrated with the inability of science to answer all questions, including the supernatural ones.

There are no supernatural questions to answer - everything can be explained logically and that explaination conforming with the Laws of Physics and Time. There is no supernatural. The chances of supernatural happening is about as little as the laws of gravity being defied.

Post by **Marv** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:38 am

Revan wrote:
sgtnull wrote:maybe you are frustrated with the inability of science to answer all questions, including the supernatural ones.
There are no supernatural questions to answer - everything can be explained logically and that explaination conforming with the Laws of Physics and Time. There is no supernatural. The chances of supernatural happening is about as little as the laws of gravity being defied.

the irony being that Newton believed more firmly in God than science.

can we just be clear that i was telling a joke. adding various asides like....ofcourse Newton didnt invent gravity and believing in science is an oxymoron and, while Newton is widely understood to have believed in god he didn't conform to any specific religion.... may have taken the gloss of what appears to have been recieved as a pretty gloss free joke.

Post by **Kinslaughterer** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:56 am

Newton waffled quited abit about his belief system and was not a Christian. He also spent most of the 2nd half of his life studying alchemy. Besides, he didn't invent gravity, he just "found" it.

Post by **Revan** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:09 am

Tazzman wrote:
Revan wrote:
sgtnull wrote:maybe you are frustrated with the inability of science to answer all questions, including the supernatural ones.
There are no supernatural questions to answer - everything can be explained logically and that explaination conforming with the Laws of Physics and Time. There is no supernatural. The chances of supernatural happening is about as little as the laws of gravity being defied.
the irony being that Newton believed more firmly in God than science.

That's because believe and fact are different. Religion and science by their very articulation are opposing. He didn't "believe" in his science more because science is fact, you cannot dispute facts - unless you're blind to them. Religion however is entirely based on belief, and not backed up by any true facts whatsoever - though some people like to believe otherwise.

Post by **Loredoctor** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:56 am

Good posts, guys.

Post by **Avatar** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:24 am

Good posts Darth. Nice to see you here in the Close.

I'll tell you all something though...

I am frustrated with the inability of science to answer all questions right now. I can't wait until it can.

Because you know what? I think that one day it might well be able to.

Because it is a constantly growing, constantly changing, always refining and adapting thing. In fact, like everything else, from virii to society, science evolves.

Because it it never satisfied that it is complete. It never assumes or believes or acts as though it can go no further. that what is known is all that can be known. For science, there is always more to know.

--Avatar

Post by **Prebe** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:37 am

Heh! Some women might have some explaining to do if science ever comes close to explaining virii.

dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/v/virus.html

(to be honest, I did say that the plural form was vira wich is the chosen form in danish and german languages).

Post by **Avatar** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:43 am

Haha, I forgot about that. but you're right. It's your fault. It in no way detracts from the brilliance of my post though.

--A

Post by **sgt.null** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:52 am

Loremaster wrote:
sgtnull wrote:maybe you are frustrated with the inability of science to answer all questions, including the supernatural ones.
Null, you really like pushing it, don't you? Just stop antagonising everything. You talk about how your beliefs are being persecuted yet constantly go on the attack of science.

Lore: i'm sure that people here can stand up to some good natured ribbing. i even put up the smile face thing. and i am more polite than many have been about religion. i enjoy science, read the magazines. had the Cosmos book as a boy.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Null's grudge with scientists. Take 5.