Man, I've been M.I.A. for a bit now. I got book four finished and broke down and bought the last three ( I'm addicted.)I'm spending my income tax apparently making sure Stephen King has plenty of money...in just under 8 days I managed to acquire all 7 books...
I'm starting book 7 today. I've never read much King, I've always been a fan of his movie adaptations and so on...I must say, I LOVE this story every bit of it, even the boring parts.lol !
I know a lot of people were upset at the ending, and I even read the spoilers way back when the book came out and have since forgotten...
I think you gotta just accept what the writer gives ya even if it does stink, but I'll be heartbroken if Roland doesn't make it to the tower...
*crosses fingers for the crumbling ka-tet , and heads for DT7*
*crawls out from behind DT-VII*
Moderator: lucimay
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Luke The Unbeliever
- Elohim
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*crawls out from behind DT-VII*
Brian: Who cured you?
Ex-Leper: Jesus did, sir. I was hopping along, minding my own business, all of a sudden, up he comes, cures me! One minute I'm a leper with a trade, next minute my livelihood's gone. Not so much as a by-your-leave! "You're cured, mate." Bloody do-gooder.
Brian: Well, why don't you go and tell him you want to be a leper again?
Ex-Leper: Uh, I could do that sir, yeah. Yeah, I could do that I suppose. What I was thinking was I was going to ask him if he could make me a bit lame in one leg during the middle of the week. You know, something beggable, but not leprosy, which is a pain in the @$$ to be blunt and excuse my French, sir.
Ex-Leper: Jesus did, sir. I was hopping along, minding my own business, all of a sudden, up he comes, cures me! One minute I'm a leper with a trade, next minute my livelihood's gone. Not so much as a by-your-leave! "You're cured, mate." Bloody do-gooder.
Brian: Well, why don't you go and tell him you want to be a leper again?
Ex-Leper: Uh, I could do that sir, yeah. Yeah, I could do that I suppose. What I was thinking was I was going to ask him if he could make me a bit lame in one leg during the middle of the week. You know, something beggable, but not leprosy, which is a pain in the @$$ to be blunt and excuse my French, sir.
For what it's worth Luke I think the ending was brilliant. I'd be happy to discuss the reasons why once you've reached it. (Whatever ending that may be!! Muahhaaahahaa) <ahem>!
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
Yeah, come back and tell us about it Luke. We'll be here. 
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Roland of Gilead
- <i>Haruchai</i>
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Luke The Unbeliever
- Elohim
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Kingsport, Tennessee
Well, Sunday Night I finished DT7...and fo course I didn't stop reading after King suggested to...
Man, I love that series, I was captured by every novel and in the end....I neither liked nor hated the ending either way.
Losing Eddie and Jake so close together was something I wasn't ready for, honestly, I kept hoping Susannah would be one of the unlucky ones
(she was such a high maintenance friend, or I believe Roland supposed so too)...but I guess had it been Jake or Eddie survive, perhaps they wouldn't have drawn the door and left Roland before he reaches the tower.
Eddie was a real tough loss for me, I liked him too much to see him die...Ka I s'pose.
Now onto Roland and the room at the top of the Dark Tower...
Man I'm just heartbroken for him. In that last instant when he's crying: Please, Have mercy, Not again ! ....
I thought I was gonna lose it.. and then his mind already starts to cloud when Ka pulls him through....I hurt for Roland.
Although I must admit, I'm not sure what he needs salvation from, I mean death happens and killing happens and it's impossible for someone to control Ka....so why is it that Roland needs to keep searching ? What lesson did he not learn ?
My guess is when one of you tells me, it'll be something so easy I've totally overlooked the possibility..lol
Bottom Line: I love this series and can't wait to read it again, but SOIAF comes before the re-read.
Man, I love that series, I was captured by every novel and in the end....I neither liked nor hated the ending either way.
Losing Eddie and Jake so close together was something I wasn't ready for, honestly, I kept hoping Susannah would be one of the unlucky ones
(she was such a high maintenance friend, or I believe Roland supposed so too)...but I guess had it been Jake or Eddie survive, perhaps they wouldn't have drawn the door and left Roland before he reaches the tower.
Eddie was a real tough loss for me, I liked him too much to see him die...Ka I s'pose.
Now onto Roland and the room at the top of the Dark Tower...
Man I'm just heartbroken for him. In that last instant when he's crying: Please, Have mercy, Not again ! ....
I thought I was gonna lose it.. and then his mind already starts to cloud when Ka pulls him through....I hurt for Roland.
Although I must admit, I'm not sure what he needs salvation from, I mean death happens and killing happens and it's impossible for someone to control Ka....so why is it that Roland needs to keep searching ? What lesson did he not learn ?
My guess is when one of you tells me, it'll be something so easy I've totally overlooked the possibility..lol
Bottom Line: I love this series and can't wait to read it again, but SOIAF comes before the re-read.
Brian: Who cured you?
Ex-Leper: Jesus did, sir. I was hopping along, minding my own business, all of a sudden, up he comes, cures me! One minute I'm a leper with a trade, next minute my livelihood's gone. Not so much as a by-your-leave! "You're cured, mate." Bloody do-gooder.
Brian: Well, why don't you go and tell him you want to be a leper again?
Ex-Leper: Uh, I could do that sir, yeah. Yeah, I could do that I suppose. What I was thinking was I was going to ask him if he could make me a bit lame in one leg during the middle of the week. You know, something beggable, but not leprosy, which is a pain in the @$$ to be blunt and excuse my French, sir.
Ex-Leper: Jesus did, sir. I was hopping along, minding my own business, all of a sudden, up he comes, cures me! One minute I'm a leper with a trade, next minute my livelihood's gone. Not so much as a by-your-leave! "You're cured, mate." Bloody do-gooder.
Brian: Well, why don't you go and tell him you want to be a leper again?
Ex-Leper: Uh, I could do that sir, yeah. Yeah, I could do that I suppose. What I was thinking was I was going to ask him if he could make me a bit lame in one leg during the middle of the week. You know, something beggable, but not leprosy, which is a pain in the @$$ to be blunt and excuse my French, sir.
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Roland of Gilead
- <i>Haruchai</i>
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- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:31 pm
- Location: Kansas City
The death of Eddie was the most painful for me, too. I bawled like a baby, both when he was shot, and during his final death scene.
I think King intended the reader to see many different things that Roland could have done differently on his quest. For me, Roland must learn to control his obsession. He bases every decision on it, both good and bad, through the entire series.
And ultimately, he saves the Tower when he saves the Breakers - he could have cried off right there, but obsession drives him onwards.
The irony, and the tragedy to me, is that without obsession, can he succeed at all? So is he doomed to repeat his experience forever?
I think King intended the reader to see many different things that Roland could have done differently on his quest. For me, Roland must learn to control his obsession. He bases every decision on it, both good and bad, through the entire series.
And ultimately, he saves the Tower when he saves the Breakers - he could have cried off right there, but obsession drives him onwards.
The irony, and the tragedy to me, is that without obsession, can he succeed at all? So is he doomed to repeat his experience forever?
"I am, in short, a man on the edge of everything." - Dark Tower II, The Drawing of the Three
Eddie's hurt, Oy's killed me. I felt so stupid about that, but losing Oy was just the worst.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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Luke The Unbeliever
- Elohim
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Kingsport, Tennessee
I was honestly amazed that Oy lived as long as he did. Right from the first when he went after the Tick-Tock Man I was so sure that Oy was a goner, and just about every confrontation afterword I figured he'd get killed...thank god he didn't, I don't think I ever read something where I liked a certain animal so well...except of course The Ranyhyn...
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think Roland ever said what/who made/caused him swear to reach the Tower, he says he's sworn and he's asked why, but I could be wrong but I don't remember King ever going into much detail over that vow...a weird kind of shadow cast upon the origin of Roland's obssession I think..
And another thing, ya know how Roland seems to have these feelings about things or even Eddie, Jake and Susannah....I mean, if Roland has been endlessly reliving his search for the Dark Tower, does than mean that Jake ,Eddie, Susannah, and Oy do too ? Is that why they seem to just <i>know</i> something ? Residual memories that flash across their memories like Deja Vu for instance ? funny thing King had Roland kind of putting some stock in Deja Vu towards the end huh ?
After a few days to think about it...King was definitely getting everyone ready for Roland's outcome in the last three books...
And I seem to agree with the majority that it was kind of a bummer that Jake and Eddie were in a different "when" and weren't the 100% Jake and Eddie that we all loved...but something is better than nothing I guess...
just some things to think about...
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think Roland ever said what/who made/caused him swear to reach the Tower, he says he's sworn and he's asked why, but I could be wrong but I don't remember King ever going into much detail over that vow...a weird kind of shadow cast upon the origin of Roland's obssession I think..
And another thing, ya know how Roland seems to have these feelings about things or even Eddie, Jake and Susannah....I mean, if Roland has been endlessly reliving his search for the Dark Tower, does than mean that Jake ,Eddie, Susannah, and Oy do too ? Is that why they seem to just <i>know</i> something ? Residual memories that flash across their memories like Deja Vu for instance ? funny thing King had Roland kind of putting some stock in Deja Vu towards the end huh ?
After a few days to think about it...King was definitely getting everyone ready for Roland's outcome in the last three books...
And I seem to agree with the majority that it was kind of a bummer that Jake and Eddie were in a different "when" and weren't the 100% Jake and Eddie that we all loved...but something is better than nothing I guess...
just some things to think about...
Brian: Who cured you?
Ex-Leper: Jesus did, sir. I was hopping along, minding my own business, all of a sudden, up he comes, cures me! One minute I'm a leper with a trade, next minute my livelihood's gone. Not so much as a by-your-leave! "You're cured, mate." Bloody do-gooder.
Brian: Well, why don't you go and tell him you want to be a leper again?
Ex-Leper: Uh, I could do that sir, yeah. Yeah, I could do that I suppose. What I was thinking was I was going to ask him if he could make me a bit lame in one leg during the middle of the week. You know, something beggable, but not leprosy, which is a pain in the @$$ to be blunt and excuse my French, sir.
Ex-Leper: Jesus did, sir. I was hopping along, minding my own business, all of a sudden, up he comes, cures me! One minute I'm a leper with a trade, next minute my livelihood's gone. Not so much as a by-your-leave! "You're cured, mate." Bloody do-gooder.
Brian: Well, why don't you go and tell him you want to be a leper again?
Ex-Leper: Uh, I could do that sir, yeah. Yeah, I could do that I suppose. What I was thinking was I was going to ask him if he could make me a bit lame in one leg during the middle of the week. You know, something beggable, but not leprosy, which is a pain in the @$$ to be blunt and excuse my French, sir.
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- Immanentizing The Eschaton
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Personally, I would have preferred it if they'd "stayed dead" as it were. The alternative was just too easy, too nice, too...I dunno...happy ending-like.
A good point about the rest of the tet though, if Roland carries on, (and how many times has he done it already?), then surely he must once again draw his tet from our world.
Eddies death was indeed a rough one, although I'd been expecting it from about book 5. And the way that Jake died was pretty sad too.
Good question about the origin of Rolands oath too. We're still missing too much of his back-story. Perhaps it was simply that the fact that the White wasn't prevailing that set him on his quest, although the tower should not care for the White in itself...
--A
A good point about the rest of the tet though, if Roland carries on, (and how many times has he done it already?), then surely he must once again draw his tet from our world.
Eddies death was indeed a rough one, although I'd been expecting it from about book 5. And the way that Jake died was pretty sad too.
Good question about the origin of Rolands oath too. We're still missing too much of his back-story. Perhaps it was simply that the fact that the White wasn't prevailing that set him on his quest, although the tower should not care for the White in itself...
--A
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Roland of Gilead
- <i>Haruchai</i>
- Posts: 745
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:31 pm
- Location: Kansas City
Jake's death was almost as painful as Eddie's, and I cried yet again. Oy's demise was also tear-wrenching, although it was almost inevitable at that point in the story.
Paradoxically, with Jake's death, it looked fifty-fifty to me, because that scene was so well-written and riveting, Jake or Roland, and I was so happy that it wasn't Roland who was killed . . . so even while fighting tears, I was elated, too, that Roland would continue to the Tower. That may not make a lot of sense, but that's how I felt.
Paradoxically, with Jake's death, it looked fifty-fifty to me, because that scene was so well-written and riveting, Jake or Roland, and I was so happy that it wasn't Roland who was killed . . . so even while fighting tears, I was elated, too, that Roland would continue to the Tower. That may not make a lot of sense, but that's how I felt.
"I am, in short, a man on the edge of everything." - Dark Tower II, The Drawing of the Three
That was a paticularly well-written segment, because I felt it really could have gone either way.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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Spiral Jacobs
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**MAJOR SPOILERS*** (just in case)
Well..."It is finished", as the man says. I didn't see the ending coming, and personally I think it would have been more to my taste without the Coda. It would have pissed off readers even more, but still...7 books and then just the sound of a closing door as Roland finally enters the tower. Imagine that.
I guess SK had something like that in mind, but felt it necessary to give some kind of closure. Unfortunately it does not really make sense to me. The thing about the horn felt contrived and out of the blue. ('The thing' being what? I'm not sure. What is the cause, what is the reason (as the Merovingian would say) for the loop Roland's in? Is he stuck in a Brannon Braga script?)
What didn't help is that my all-time favourite graphic novel series, written by Alejandro Jodorowsky and drawn by French master artist Moebius, ends exactly the same! That's the first thing that popped into my mind when reading the coda.
Still...I liked the book very much. The deaths were not unexpected, and especially Jake's was very well handled. The fact that - again - Roland has more important business on his mind is harsh. Eddie's death felt too drawn out for dramatic effect, for someone being shot in the head.
King's presence in the first part of the book (addressing the reader) felt intrusive and I'm glad that later on he went to the background and just let the story happen. There's some classic SK in there, with descriptions you can visualise in a film (the corridor under Castle Discordia, with lamps lighting the way before you and turning off behind you...monsters in the dark).
I may reread the whole thing some time in the future, but I'm a bit afraid of his rewriting of the earlier parts. The reason I liked the first books so much (years ago), was the way they were different from all his other work. I think The Gunslinger and Wizard and Glass are my favourites (the latter because of the long backstory - I like that kind of character-building. The last 3 books, however, felt more like 'standard' Stephen King to me.
Well..."It is finished", as the man says. I didn't see the ending coming, and personally I think it would have been more to my taste without the Coda. It would have pissed off readers even more, but still...7 books and then just the sound of a closing door as Roland finally enters the tower. Imagine that.
I guess SK had something like that in mind, but felt it necessary to give some kind of closure. Unfortunately it does not really make sense to me. The thing about the horn felt contrived and out of the blue. ('The thing' being what? I'm not sure. What is the cause, what is the reason (as the Merovingian would say) for the loop Roland's in? Is he stuck in a Brannon Braga script?)
What didn't help is that my all-time favourite graphic novel series, written by Alejandro Jodorowsky and drawn by French master artist Moebius, ends exactly the same! That's the first thing that popped into my mind when reading the coda.
Still...I liked the book very much. The deaths were not unexpected, and especially Jake's was very well handled. The fact that - again - Roland has more important business on his mind is harsh. Eddie's death felt too drawn out for dramatic effect, for someone being shot in the head.
King's presence in the first part of the book (addressing the reader) felt intrusive and I'm glad that later on he went to the background and just let the story happen. There's some classic SK in there, with descriptions you can visualise in a film (the corridor under Castle Discordia, with lamps lighting the way before you and turning off behind you...monsters in the dark).
I may reread the whole thing some time in the future, but I'm a bit afraid of his rewriting of the earlier parts. The reason I liked the first books so much (years ago), was the way they were different from all his other work. I think The Gunslinger and Wizard and Glass are my favourites (the latter because of the long backstory - I like that kind of character-building. The last 3 books, however, felt more like 'standard' Stephen King to me.
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Roland of Gilead
- <i>Haruchai</i>
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I can't agree that the last three books felt different from the rest of the series. In fact, as a long-time reader who waited years between books, that was my biggest fear . . . that King would not be able to return after such long absences (and often deep personal life-changes) and still be able to capture the style and essence of the Dark Tower world.
But everytime he hooked me in with no trouble at all, and all seven novels are fantasy of the highest caliber.
But everytime he hooked me in with no trouble at all, and all seven novels are fantasy of the highest caliber.
"I am, in short, a man on the edge of everything." - Dark Tower II, The Drawing of the Three