Runes, Prolouge, Ch. 3: In Spite of Her

ROTE, FR, AATE, TLD

Moderators: Cord Hurn, danlo, dlbpharmd

User avatar
danlo
Lord
Posts: 20838
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:29 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Runes, Prolouge, Ch. 3: In Spite of Her

Post by danlo »

I better copy this as I go as 5 days ago I wrote a HUGE response to chapter two only to be obliterated in a heartbeat by some cat's paw :-x :P or like yesterday when I started writing something real fast and a pop of lightning blinked out the electricity for 2 seconds exactly when I typed an exclamation point.

The image I'm left with in my head after reading Inspite of Her is of "Tony". It was close to two years ago when I first saw him being put out on the little metal porch of an IP classroom. He was, probably, 8 but looked 4, a really scrawny little thing who, when he didn't periodically tap on his xylophone, always looked straight ahead and rocked back and forth continually for two periods straight. He looked like he was smiling, but who can tell. I worked with a couple of autistic kids before and their artwork simply blew me away: very detailed portals to completely different dimensions.

In the chapter we meet Jeremiah ("the prophet of woe") Jason up close and personal. Jeremiah shows classic sings of being an autistic savant, but he can't be: autism is congenital. Psychologists have insisted his condition is a "dissociative disorder", "hysterial conversion reaction" or "somatoform disorder", in anycase Jeremiah's state was clearly caused by trauma. And the most direct trauma we can assess is his sticking his right hand in Lord Foul's bondfire at the beginning of The Wounded Land, when he was five. Linden Avery saw him do it and, as a matter of fact, had to amputate the top of his thumb and the last two fingers of his right hand to save his hand after she came to and assisted Dr. Berensford in the emergency room. Actually they probably had to treat at least 30 burned hands that night including Marsha Jason and her other children, Hosea and Rebecca.

Marsha Jason had a rough life; abandoned by her husband when she was pregnant with Jeremiah and had "...subsisted at the mercy of various welfare agencies. In one form or another, she had kept her children alive throught the charity of strangers. And then, when her self-pity and ineffectiveness had reached unendurable proportions, She had discovered the Community of Retribution." Quite a strange group, to say the least, had they drugged and brainwashed her and her children? (and did this open Jeremiah up to worse trauma) Who were these people? Sacrifice for sin? Ritual murder? Where do they come from? You need to go back about 16 pages to find Linden's explanation, "From despair. They're broken by their own hollowness. It makes them implode." Was Jeremiah already on the road to such hollowness? For God's sake he was only 5! How could they do such things to a child?-before all that Marsha described him as normal---but how normal can you be in that group?

So what's the connection between Linden and Jeremiah? Well Linden finally succeeded in adopting him about two years later--which makes him now about what? 15? Well Jeremiah really didn't do anything for the first two years or so, but he did fill a major space in Linden's heart along with her loss of Thomas Covenant. And Linden understood his barren mental cell after being violated by the Clave and rendered comatose by the Elohim. One day, during a doctor's visit, Jeremiah actually started doing something: putting blocks together and creating intricate forms. Since then Linden had bought him increasingly complex sets of blocks, legos, lincoln logs, tinkertoys and racetracks that he constructed into marvelous buildings and worlds, without wasting a brick.

But what does that have to do with right now? Well we know that Roger's sudden appearance, strange demands, odd history and raver-like sense of purpose has triggered off a thousand alarms in Linden's head and is giving her long pauses of flashback to her time in the Land. Here she remembers the steadfastness and lessons of The First and Pitchwife and Covenant's death. She now has to take some real personal action to protect Joan and others around her, especially Jeremiah who she loves with all her heart. Linden has never forgiven herself for her failure to intervene at the bondfire, and perhaps even to have prevented Covenant's death in our world. She has contacted affable and trustworthy Bill Coty to double security at the hospital and even thought of grabbing Jeremiah and fleeing. But no, Foul will not touch those she loves, those she is responsible for. Besides how can Jeremiah really be in trouble? How can Roger even know of his existence? But...even if she decides to hide Joan...he can find her address.

That in mind she returns home, mind racing, and she's totally relieved to find that Jeremiah and his babysitter are sitting, rocking, calmly in the living room when Sandy shows her what he's created today: full scale renderings of Mt. Thunder and Revelstone!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by danlo on Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:12 am, edited 6 times in total.
fall far and well Pilots!
User avatar
dlbpharmd
Lord
Posts: 14462
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:27 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by dlbpharmd »

Thanks Danlo!

So how does Jeremiah have any idea what Mt. Thunder and Revelstone look like? I immediately am reminded of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind," and the models of Devil's Tower. Obviously Jeremiah is in some kind of contact with someone from the Land, but how?
Image
Believer
Elohim
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:53 am
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by Believer »

Did TC ever tell Linden about Pietten? The only commonality is their young age when they were twisted by Foul, but while reading your dissection I was reminded of him.

Then I had a silly idea -- maybe Jeremiah is Nom. :) We know Foul can influence/possess people in our world. Maybe Nom was remarkable enough due to his taking the rended samadhi's essence that he was able to crossover.

Actually, I doubt it, as I don't think he'd have any reason to go past the Arch like that. But still it was a fun thought.

Maybe Haven's Farm is simply enough of a nexus between our world and the Land, and Jeremiah's condition lets him be a sort of conduit. Maybe it doens't actually come from a direct influence from the Land...?

There don't seem to be many people powerful enough to crossover anyway. Doubt the Elohim would want to, or even could. Foul? I think Jeremiah would be more malicious then. Covenant himself? If he upholds the Arch, could he be communicating through Jeremiah? Hmm... Just as a warning, hey, it's time agaiN? You're a character in a novel!? :)
User avatar
dlbpharmd
Lord
Posts: 14462
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:27 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by dlbpharmd »

I don't remember TC ever telling Linden about Pietten.
Image
User avatar
Relayer
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1365
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:36 am
Location: Wasatch Stonedown

Post by Relayer »

Interesting points... The 'warning' comment seems to be right on... it's game time again. It's possible that Jeremiah already knows what's going on (where's his mind been all this time?), or someone like TC or the Creator is going thru him to warn Linden.

---

Linden keeps trying to reassure herself because she didn't see the Old Man, without ever considering that a) just because he did appear before, doesn't automatically mean he will this time (I don't think he ever appears at the beginning of TPTP, does he?), or b) he might have appeared to someone else - Jerry, Roger, heck, maybe the girl who used to work at the counter for the phone company :) ... she just assumes that the beggar will show himself to HER, and if not, there's no threat, even though the warning signs are obvious in Roger. Presumably, TC never saw the old man at the beginning of TWL. But he still gets to go.

Besides, as you said "I'm a character in an SRD series. How could I think he wouldn't mess with me some more?"
---

One more thing that sticks out for me... near the beginning of the chapter is a comment that Roger was "bred for despair by his grandparents, as well as his mother" (sorry, that's not an exact quote)... do we have more info on Joan's parents, or about that time frame? I don't remember it if there is. Could that be a relevant point, or was SRD just emphasizing Roger's supportive and nurturing upbringing?

R
"History is a myth men have agreed upon." - Napoleon

Image
User avatar
[Syl]
Unfettered One
Posts: 13021
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:36 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by [Syl] »

Great work, danlo.

If memory serves, The Beggar only appears to people (Covenant and Linden) before they are sent to the land... kind of like a travel agent confirming your itenerary ;), so I'm not surprised by his absence... unless we found someone else who went, and then, since we're going from Joan's PoV, he could've appeared to them as well.

Like Jeremiah.

And I'll have to check my books at home, but I think Covenant might've mentioned Pietten in TOT on the ship when he comes clean about a lot of things.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
User avatar
danlo
Lord
Posts: 20838
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:29 pm
Location: Albuquerque NM
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Post by danlo »

It would be hard not to spoil right here among theories of the beggar's involvement, if there is any.
Spoiler
A couple have to do with Roger/Sara Clint and Jeremiah. For all we know the beggar could have appeared in the middle of the storm in the middle of the road trying to stop Roger and warn Sara-and be run over by Roger...Another could be the beggar/Creator taking Jeremiah on the same type of aerial trip across the Land-that he did with TC at the end of TPTP. For all we know Jeremiah may have already been at work in Land during his dreams and/or "autistic like" state.
...I was waiting for someone else to point out that, at the end of this chapter, Bill is found shot in the head and Joan has been removed from the hospital...
fall far and well Pilots!
tonyz
Elohim
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Riverside, CA
Contact:

Post by tonyz »

Linden keeps trying to reassure herself because she didn't see the Old Man, without ever considering that a) just because he did appear before, doesn't automatically mean he will this time (I don't think he ever appears at the beginning of TPTP, does he?), or b) he might have appeared to someone else - Jerry, Roger, heck, maybe the girl who used to work at the counter for the phone company Smile ... she just assumes that the beggar will show himself to HER, and if not, there's no threat, even though the warning signs are obvious in Roger.
It seems to me that this is something which will hold true throughout the book: Linden continues to make assumptions, and operate on them, without ever questioning them until they blow up in her face -- if then! I'll probably have more to say on this in later chapters, but right now it looks as if this habit of assumption is going to bite her bigtime. It's almost like it's _her_ form of Despite ("I know what's going on, and you don't, you pathetic ignorant moron", though I don't think Linden would ever consciously verbalize it to herself that way.)

It's particularly obvious in places like this ("I can't go to the Land unless I meet The Old Guy", despite Covenant having gone last time and not meeting him that time), of course.
Choiceless, you were given the power of choice. I elected you for the Land but did not compel you to serve my purpose in the Land... Only thus could I preserve the integrity of my creation.
User avatar
drew
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 7877
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:20 pm
Location: Canada
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Post by drew »

I think what we learn about Jerry goes towards Linden's charactor as a person.
Now I know lot's of people here don't really like LInden...but it takes a special kind of person to be willing and able to look after someone with such Dissabling limitations...and an even specialer(sp?) kind of person to ADOPT someone with those dissabling limitations.

Add to that, the fact that she now professionally looks after people with Mental Challenges--it goes to show that she has become more of a mental healing, rather than a physical healer...no doubt a result of the months she spent using her health sense in the Land.
I thought you were a ripe grape
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 62038
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 32 times
Contact:

Post by Avatar »

Great post danlo.
"...subsisted at the mercy of various welfare agencies. In one form or another, she had kept her children alive throught the charity of strangers. And then, when her self-pity and ineffectiveness had reached unendurable proportions, She had discovered the Community of Retribution."
Suddenly this bit reminds me very strongly of Linden's mother...in fact, apart from the Community of Retribution, it could be close to verbatim from TOT or wherever it was that Linden described her.

No doubt that played a part in her taking Jeremiah in too...

--A
User avatar
wayfriend
.
Posts: 20957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:34 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by wayfriend »

I liked your dissection, Danlo. It's good to see people who attack things from a different angle than the story presents.

This chapter is so ripe and juicy!!!
dlbpharmd wrote:So how does Jeremiah have any idea what Mt. Thunder and Revelstone look like?
One thing that struck me as I reread this chapter was the description of Jeremiah's earlier works:
It's strangeness in her entryway, a pedestrian place intended for the most ordinary use, gave it an eldritch quality, almost an evanescence, as though some faerie castle had been half translated from its own magical realm, and could be discerned by its outlines in slim rods and wheels like a glimpse into another dimension of being. Seen by moonlight, blurred and indistinct, it would have seemed the stuff of dreams.

And perhaps it was. Jeremiah's dreams - like his mind itself - lay beyond her reach. Only such castles and his other constructs gave her any hint of the visions which filled his head, defined his secret life.
It's incredibly exciting to find, burried in this description, words which tie it so strongly to The Land.

I have no doubt in my mind, now, that Jeremiah has always been connected to the Land somehow, before the actions in this chapter occur. SRD is coming right out and saying it, practically! It's even got the word HINT right in it!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Relayer wrote:One more thing that sticks out for me... near the beginning of the chapter is a comment that Roger was "bred for despair by his grandparents, as well as his mother" (sorry, that's not an exact quote)... do we have more info on Joan's parents, or about that time frame?
I have seen glimpses in this chapter that many of the events of that timeframe ten years ago have specifically led up to this moment. There's more good stuff in chapter four, and so I'll save my big conclusions for that chapter. But still...

We know that Foul was motivating those people at that time. "She and her children, along with perhaps thirty other members of the Community of Retribution, had left the commune and made their way towards haven farm." Only Foul can have been behind this.

I think its easy to overlook how many people Foul has influenced in those earlier events besides Joan. Remember the man speaking the ritual as the hands were immolated?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Along those lines... I became incredibly suspicious of Sandy when I reread this chapter. Did anyone else?

She had reacted anxiously to Linden's shock at seeing Revelstone and Mount Thunder, and then was markedly relieved when Linden replied that nothing was wrong. I cannot say why, but this time I read this as if Sandy was Roger's conspirator: She was anxious when Linden seemed to catch on that something was amiss; she was relieved when Linden seemed to remain oblivious.

Couple this with Sandy's providential appearance: "She had taken care of Jeremiah for seven years now, and exhibited no ambition to do anything else." The exact discription of a mole - some planted ahead of time by the enemy to strike at a later date.

If Foul had been putting events into motion for ten years or more ...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

If we have any doubt as to whether SRD hints that Linden is happy and content with her life, or troubled and lacking, it should be dispelled at this point.

"Her years with Jeremiah ... taught her things that she had never known about love and joy." "Her gratitude for Jeremiah was too great to be contained ... he gave her a use for the capacity for love which she had learned from Covenant."

Even "She did not have to care for her house herself. ... she was grateful that she lived in a community which honored what she did." points to harmony with her current environment.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Some other juicy morsels:

:?: "He lacked the experience, the background, to react effectively." Echoes of Roger's earlier words, which in turn echoed Covenant's in TWL. Again, I point out a possible clue that Roger may be more like Linden and Covenant underneath than we have seen.

:?: "Surely it was white gold itself that mattered ... not any specific piece of the metal?" Indeed. But "Thomas Covenant probably would have known the answer. Linden did not." hints that Linden is wrong ... it is a specific piece of the metal indeed.

:?: SRD continually uses "Lego" as a plural. Not "Legos". I didn't even notice that the first two times I read this chapter - which proves something about the power and blindness of assumptions, I suppose. But now that I notice it - it's annoying. Say "Legos"!

:?: Why is Jeremiah's racetrack built only at night, when no one can see? This is the reason why Linden considers it special to him! What is the meaning of this clue?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Finally, and this harkens back to my first reading: When I read Pitchwife's song positioned here in this chapter, the effect was striking. With so few words, Donaldson brought so much back to me, brought so much welling up.
  • My heart has rooms that sigh with dust
    And ashes in the hearth.
    They must be cleaned and blown away
    By daylights breath.
There is so much power in repeated phrases, tying the present to the past.
.
User avatar
I'm Murrin
Are you?
Posts: 15840
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
Location: North East, UK
Contact:

Post by I'm Murrin »

SRD continually uses "Lego" as a plural. Not "Legos". I didn't even notice that the first two times I read this chapter - which proves something about the power and blindness of assumptions, I suppose. But now that I notice it - it's annoying. Say "Legos"!
I remember reading that Donaldson used "legos" in the book, but that changing it to "lego" was one of the revisions made for the UK (international?) editions.
"Lego" was used in the UK editions because that's what we say over here, and because "Lego" is a trademark, not an object, and as such is always referring to the bricks collectively. :P
User avatar
dlbpharmd
Lord
Posts: 14462
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:27 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by dlbpharmd »

I have no doubt in my mind, now, that Jeremiah has always been connected to the Land somehow
I agree.
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 62038
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 32 times
Contact:

Post by Avatar »

Dlb wrote:The exact discription of a mole - planted ahead of time by the enemy to strike at a later date.
Ohhh, good one Dlb...never noticed it before...good one indeed.

--A
User avatar
wayfriend
.
Posts: 20957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:34 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by wayfriend »

Murrin wrote:
SRD continually uses "Lego" as a plural. Not "Legos". I didn't even notice that the first two times I read this chapter - which proves something about the power and blindness of assumptions, I suppose. But now that I notice it - it's annoying. Say "Legos"!
I remember reading that Donaldson used "legos" in the book, but that changing it to "lego" was one of the revisions made for the UK (international?) editions.
"Lego" was used in the UK editions because that's what we say over here, and because "Lego" is a trademark, not an object, and as such is always referring to the bricks collectively. :P
Bingo. The first two times I read the US edition. This time I read the UK edition (because my wife found me a signed Golancz for Christmas). Which explains why I didn't notice it before.
.
User avatar
dlbpharmd
Lord
Posts: 14462
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:27 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by dlbpharmd »

Avatar wrote:
Dlb wrote:The exact discription of a mole - planted ahead of time by the enemy to strike at a later date.
Ohhh, good one Dlb...never noticed it before...good one indeed.

--A
Hmmm, wasn't me who said that. I'm not that smart. ;)
User avatar
Relayer
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1365
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:36 am
Location: Wasatch Stonedown

Post by Relayer »

Avatar wrote:
Dlb wrote:The exact discription of a mole - planted ahead of time by the enemy to strike at a later date.
Ohhh, good one Dlb...never noticed it before...good one indeed.
Interesting. I didn't notice that either, though like Wayfriend I did wonder who else might be connected thru the Community of Retribution, or what have all those people been doing for the last 10 years? And though Sandy dates, she also "showed no inclination to get married." Another possible clue?
Spoiler
Maybe this explains why Sandy was brought along to the summoning... she could continue her role in deceiving Linden in the Land.
There's probably no one that Linden would trust more than Sandy. I don't remember her exact location, but wasn't she right near Roger? And doesn't he even hit her? How perfect...
"History is a myth men have agreed upon." - Napoleon

Image
User avatar
Lady Revel
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 2372
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Daytona Beach

Post by Lady Revel »

Great job, Danlo!

It seems clear to me that Jeremiah has visited the land, also. Whether it was a whirlwind trip or has been there mentally since the bonfire, the many ramifications of his participation in the land really intrigue me. Is he bad news for the land, or a builder? Or is his presence benign? However, if Jeremiah has been mentally in the land all of these years, why is he only showing signals that Linden would recognize now? ie. the building of Revelstone and Mount Thunder?

I have noticed that Jeremiah is just as good at taking apart his masterpieces as he is at building them. that was all she had to do to trigger Jeremiah's hidden awareness......with the same unhesitating meticulousness with which he built his constructs, he began to disassemble Mount Thunder, arranging the Legos in compact rows in their carton as he removed them. Could this mean he is going to play a part in the dissolution of the land? Will he become a world builder? Has he been taken over by the beggar? (yeah, stretching it, I know! *grin*) Well, if Lord Foul can take over people, why can't the beggar?

Sandy as a mole! WOW! That thought has never occurred to me, either! Brilliant, Wayfriend! It might explain her lack of enthusiasm for just about anything besides taking care of Jeremiah.

I would like to point out that Linden did not adopt Jeremiah for nearly two years after the bonfire. What this might mean, I haven't the faintest, but I thought I would throw that in there.

Also, what's the deal with the Mobius loop Jeremiah built over his bed? I can't help but think this is something of signifigance. I know the topic has been beat to death in the discussion forum, but the fact that he ignored the cars for so long
Spoiler
and then took a car with him
really has me curious.

Well, rereading my blurb here shows me that I haven't introduced anything new, sorry for that, but I can't help but feel this chapter is heavy with foreshadowing, and we will only know the importance of these things with further telling of the story.
User avatar
SoulBiter
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 9806
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:02 am
Has thanked: 118 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Post by SoulBiter »

Sandy may well be a mole.. however has anyone considered that she might be another incarnation of the old man in the ocre robe? Perhaps there to prepare Jeremiah for a future role..
We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch Image
User avatar
matrixman
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 8361
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:24 am

Post by matrixman »

Late to the party, but...good chapter review, danlo. I've nothing new or profound to add to this discussion...but I will say, danlo, that it's great to have the perspective of someone like you who actually has worked with autistic children. So your presence lends an exra resonance to this group read. It's like a blurring of life and art. Hmm...blurring of realities...yeah, this is going to be one strange trip (not that the previous trips have been "normal" by any means).
Post Reply

Return to “Last Chronicles”