Pink Floyd fans: I'm going to go out on a limb...

[lucimay]

oh hey.
i was just laughing cause i've always thought Loder was a tool myself.

i didn't even read the review Mhoram. sorry.

[Lord Mhoram]

Hey, it's alright. I misinterpreted the comment anyway.

[dANdeLION]

If Animals didn't make the top 500, then all of Rolling Stone is a freaking TOOL.

[lucimay]

If Animals didn't make the top 500, then all of Rolling Stone is a freaking TOOL.

agreed.

[Lord Mhoram]

If you're interested, here are the PF albums and their rankings...(I was obesessed with this list for months, it's interesting, if questionable):
#43 The Dark Side of the Moon
#347 The Piper at the Gates of Dawn
#87 The Wall
#209 Wish You Were Here

No Barrett, Waters, or Gilmour solo albums.

[Cail]

Everyone thinks Kurt Loder is a tool.

LM, the Division Bell and Momentary Lapse tours were mammoth. They were selling out huge arenas and football stadiums. In fact.....

Pink Floyd was the second highest grossing act of 1987 and the highest grossing of 1988 in the U.S.. Financially, Pink Floyd was the biggest act of these two years combined, as it grossed almost US$ 60 million from touring, about the same as U2 and Michael Jackson, their closest rivals, put together. Worldwide, the band grossed around US$ 135 million.

The concerts featured even more impressive special effects than the previous tour, including two custom designed airships.[7] Three stages leapfrogged around North America and Europe, each 180 feet long and featuring a 130 foot arch modelled on the Hollywood Bowl. All in all, the tour required 700 tons of steel carried by 53 articulated trucks, a crew of 161 people and an initial investment of US$ 4 million plus US$ 25 million of running costs just to stage. This tour played to 5.5 million people in 68 cities; each concert gathered an average 45,000 audience. At the end of the year, the Division Bell tour was announced as the biggest tour ever, with worldwide gross of over £150 million (about US$ 250 million). In the U.S. alone, it grossed US$ 103.5 million from 59 concerts.

www.answers.com/topic/pink-floyd-live-performances

I'm not big on lists, and I pretty much despise RS. Those rankings are ridiculous. The Wall is one of the 10 best albums ever, period. And no Animals?

Please.....

[Lord Mhoram]

Everyone thinks Kurt Loder is a tool.

Forgive my ignorance.

But yeah, I knew those tours were huge, not sure how they measure up to In the Flesh, but regardless, they were both (or all three were) enormous. Like I said, I'm not a fan of Waters post-Amused to Death and not of Floyd post-Waters, so I pretty much think they were both dinosaur rock acts by the time those three tours were in place.

As for the Rolling Stone poll, well yeah you'll obviously disagree with it. Everybody does. I disagree with it in most places. I just think it makes for great discussion, and I like it because it's a veritable Who's Who of great rock acts and some of their finest albums. I've read almost all of it, just to get background on the albums.

[Cail]

Yeah, I'll give you that. I read the lists just to bitch and to find new information.

Dinosaur rock? Way to make a guy feel old!

[Lord Mhoram]

Oh yeah I did too when I first read it. (I recommend it to anybody.) Sgt. Pepper's was No. 1, and while I pretty much expected The Beatles to be No. 1, I don't really like Sgt that much. I think The White Album's my favorite, that was 10th I think. They had a real opportunity to be interesting with this list, and instead they picked a Beatles album. Jeesh. Although, Beach Boys at 2 was interesting.

I didn't mean to call you old...I guess by dinosaur rock I meant arena rock. [/i]

[Cail]

Eh? You're gonna have have to speak up sonny.

The thing with the RS lists is they keep changing and moving different vintage albums into the #1 spot. I remember one list that had Never Mind the Bollocks at #1.

[dANdeLION]

The RS top 500 had no Rush, Crimson, Genesis, or Yes in it, but they managed to get Kiss in it. What shite.

[Lord Mhoram]

RS does tend to be that way, Cail. Also, they are very very biased towards the 60s and 70s, which I think is because they were founded at that time, and their editors were all starting writing then. I really like Spin a lot. Their Top 100 Albums (1985-2005) was really thought-provoking too. Their top 5 was Radiohead, Public Enemy, Nirvana, Pavement, and The Smiths, in that order.

dAN,

A lot of people have commented on how progressive rock got the shaft in that list. I'm not sure why RS did that. It's pretty unfair to dismiss a genre that way.

[Cail]

I'm curious LM, what don't you like about post-Waters Floyd? Musically I think it's much more complex than the earlier stuff. And lyrically it's different, but as I said, I think that's a good thing. Dave is a very different sort of writer than Roger, but that's not to say his writing is inferior.

I was very skeptical about a Watersless Floyd in '87 (by the way, I was still older than you then!!!!), but AMLoR was a very pleasant surprise. It's a really, really solid album. TDB is a much more..........Floydish album....it's quieter and more mature, but the songs (and the production) are breathtaking in their beauty.

Like I said earlier, I think that most people who won't listen to those two albums are just bitter that Waters wasn't along for the ride. But remember, he quit. He drove off Rick Wright and pissed off Dave and Nick, then he freakin' quit. Let it pass and listen to the albums with an open mind and fer cryin' out loud don't think about how Roger would've done things while you're listening to it.

At least pick up the Pulse DVD. Waters was a small part of their live show (the songwriting's done when you're onstage) so you really don't miss him. And there's plenty of old stuff on there.

[lucimay]

Like I said earlier, I think that most people who won't listen to those two albums are just bitter that Waters wasn't along for the ride. But remember, he quit. He drove off Rick Wright and pissed off Dave and Nick, then he freakin' quit. Let it pass and listen to the albums with an open mind and fer cryin' out loud don't think about how Roger would've done things while you're listening to it

i don't know WHO you're talkin about ya dinosaur!

[Lord Mhoram]

Well first off, I have seen the purists that say PF without Waters is not PF, and I'm not one them, seeing as the point you brought up about TFC is a good one. I'll tell you what I've heard from the newer Pink Floyd: I own Pulse and The Division Bell and I've heard 3-4 songs from AMLoR. Division Bell is pretty good. I especially liked "Marooned." Great song. Like I've said, my main gripe is the lyrics, which I think are sort of lacking. They definitely achieved a higher level of music complexity on The Divison Bell and on P.U.L.S.E. I know practically nothing of Pink Floyd live before this point, but the PULSE album, while usually impressive, just seems so complex and even bloated, that it sounds more studio than live, if you get what I mean.

There are definitely differences between Gilmour Pink Floyd and Waters Pink Floyd; I think I prefer Waters' because of the bite and the lyrical complexity. I mean, they're not bad obviously...just not my cup of tea I suppose.

(by the way, I was still older than you then!!!!),

LOL

[sgt.null]

even Gilmour admits that Waters is the better lyricist. but anyone invalidating post Waters Floyd should be invalidating post Barrett Floyd as well. hell some say Floyd was never any good after Klose left.

[Cail]

Fair enough. I like the way Dave writes. I think his lyrics are more evocative than Roger's in that they're a bit more vague and open to interpretation, unlike Roger's tendancy to beat you over the head with his message. I think you have to go a long way to find better songs, both lyrically and musically, than Sorrow, Yet Another Movie, and High Hopes.

What you call bloated I call magnificent, but I suspect that's a generational difference given the type of music we both grew up on.

[sgt.null]

i think Dave better uses the talents of those around him as well. if Rick had an idea, Dave would help develop that. after WYWH Roger stopped seeing Floyd as a band and more as a vehicle for his own ideas.

[Lord Mhoram]

I understand what you mean, especially about lyrics. There are lots of different lyrical styles in pop: You've got guys like Waters who are usually quite direct and full of allusions, guys like Lou Reed (the "I walked up to a chair and sat in it" school of lyrics), lyrics like the ones that Conor Oberst of Bright Eyes or Gilmour write which are simple in their vocabulary but evocative, melodramatic like Robert Smith's or Morrissey's, and just truly poetic like Leonard Cohen's. After Waters left the band, there was a major shift in their lyrics.

I think "bloated" was the wrong word, but I couldn't think of any others. Magnificent it may be, but it doesn't sound like it's being played live at all. Granted I didn't go to the concerts (although my uncle went to the one that Wayfriend mentioned at Foxborough Stadium), but it lacks the ferocity of a live album that I'd like.

Do you guys like the live album of The Wall? Not the Waters one, but the Floyd one. I think it's pretty good.

[sgt.null]

the only Wall albums have Waters on them. or am i misunderstanding?