Ridjeck Thome

[Sandgorgon rider]

In my recent re-reading of The Power that Preserves I was intrigued by the description of Ridjeck Thome. It seems kind of an odd place both in general and in particular as a home for Lord Foul.

It seems like it was designed to be a hidden city as it is almost entirely underground and a large section of it is further hidden behind secret doors. However this hidden aspect is rendered somewhat useless by having TWO HUGE TOWERS LOCATED RIGHT NEXT TO THE MAIN ENTRANCE. The main entrance itself is not hidden at all and has a grand staircase leading right into the city. Everyone in the Land seems to know exactly where Ridjeck Thome is located and Bannor even knew of a route to get there so certainly if it was supposed to be secret and hidden it didn't work very well. The jeherrin even knew all about the secret doors just from listening in their tunnels so they must not have been too big secret.

This inconsistency led me to wonder who built Ridjeck Thome and when it was built. In searching through previous threads many assume Lord Foul built RT himself and its cold perfection is a reflection of his personal identity. This doesn't seem right to me. It seems that everything Foul touches gets bent and twisted. Even his throne in RT is all warped from his presence. I can see Foul influencing the design and imbuing it with its cold evilness, but I don't see how he could use his powers to build something so smooth and perfect.

Warning: what follows is pure speculation.

I think Ridjeck Thome was probably built during the time when Foul served in the Council of Lords under High Lord Kevin. Foul probably persuaded Kevin that they should build another large city on the opposite side of the land from Revelstone. Sort of a Revelstone East possibly to encourage settlement of the lower Land. Kevin put Foul in charge of the project but it was actually built by the people of the Land possibly with the help of Cavewights who were friendly with the Lords at that time. Ridjeck Thome is an example of the height of stone lore before the Ritual of Desecration designed and influenced by Lord Foul.

There was probably a lot more of the city above ground that was covered up by the ash and lava from Hotash Slay over the years leaving just the towers and the main entrance. The underground part was supposed to serve as a refuge in case of attack and the hidden section was just more protection. After betraying Kevin at Treachers Gorge, Foul took over the city and used it to house and train his armies before sending them to the upper land to attack.

Any thoughts on the matter?

[Tulizar]

It's been so long since I read TPTP that I don't remember much about Ridjeck Thome.

For some reason I thought Cavewights had something to do with its construction. Hmm...I just don't remember. I like your speculation though.

[wayfriend]

I really like the idea that Ridjeck Thome might be Foul's Revelstone. Even though I don't think Foul is small enough to feel competitive of the Giants.

I think RT is underground, not to be secret, but because it was never meant to be a dwelling for anyone who loves fresh air and sunshine. It's Foul's abode, and no one elses. If Foul had any concern, it would be impregnability, not secrecy. Think about it: you can't attack it with siege towers, ballistae, or even a large army.

I think he created it merely to have a pleasing place in which to dwell. Perhaps his stay in Revelstone gave him a taste for stone rooms ...

[Tulizar]

Yeah, I guess unless he requires some down time Foul has no reason to hide. He claims to be the biggest bad-ass in the Land. He seems to enjoy battles and confrontations. He lures the only man with the ability to destroy him to his dwelling. So why hide?

[servant46]

I think it is possible that Foul did have RT built while he was on the council. It might have actually been built by the first group of giants who never made it back home. He could have convinced them that their love of stone was needed one more time and then did something terrible to them..thus their "missing" status.

[Sevothtarte]

In searching through previous threads many assume Lord Foul built RT himself and its cold perfection is a reflection of his personal identity. This doesn't seem right to me. It seems that everything Foul touches gets bent and twisted. Even his throne in RT is all warped from his presence. I can see Foul influencing the design and imbuing it with its cold evilness, but I don't see how he could use his powers to build something so smooth and perfect.

These characteristics - smooth, cold perfection - might be the warping. When people try to create something beautiful, they often aim for perfection, symmetry, something that goes beyond the natural. Foul's changed versions of these creations become bent and twisted, the opposite. Maybe RT was originally of a much more organic design, more natural, and he turned it into an opposite by making it smooth and cold.

Maybe it was built by people or a race with much different ideals in the areas of beauty, art, architecture than the rest of the land, so Foul's version of it naturally is different from his usual warpings too.

[Sandgorgon rider]

I think RT is underground, not to be secret, but because it was never meant to be a dwelling for anyone who loves fresh air and sunshine. It's Foul's abode, and no one elses. If Foul had any concern, it would be impregnability, not secrecy. Think about it: you can't attack it with siege towers, ballistae, or even a large army.

At first I thought like you that it was designed more for impregnability rather than secrecy, but the large section behind the secret doors seems to somewhat contradict that. If the secret section is just a hiding place for Foul assuming some enemy has entered the main section, why does it have to be so large, containing dozens of apartments and halls that can hold thousands. The large size of the secret area is what made me think that maybe RT was originally designed at least in part for other purposes other than as a home for Foul.

[Tulizar]

At first I thought like you that it was designed more for impregnability rather than secrecy, but the large section behind the secret doors seems to somewhat contradict that. If the secret section is just a hiding place for Foul assuming some enemy has entered the main section, why does it have to be so large, containing dozens of apartments and halls that can hold thousands. The large size of the secret area is what made me think that maybe RT was originally designed at least in part for other purposes other than as a home for Foul.

It's possible that RT was developed by Foul and the Council and constructed by people of the Land and Giants--if there was a back story to be told this might make an enjoyable one. It's certainly in Foul's nature to persuade others to build his home.

The only explanation I can give as to the massive size of the possibly secret chambers is that Foul doesn't truly need to hide. He plans on a grand scale and lives on a grand scale. He considers himself unstoppable and can destroy anything other than the White Gold Wielder. Yet he can't admit the possibility of defeat--it's not in his nature. I think he knows that anyone who attempts to confront him will be intimidated by the warped architecture and size of his underground dwelling.

[Avatar]

I don't really have an opinion on this, beyond enjoying the speculation, (and it's been a while since TPTP) but if the "secret" area was meant as a defensive fall-back, then you might want to be able to marshall troops, perhaps even whole armies, in it. *shrug*

--A

[Xar]

Plus, if the "hidden" area is so huge, it means that invading armies would have to search through all of it to find you, which would give you time to regroup. But I don't think it was ever a "fallback" area. It's possible that Foul used those rooms in Ridjeck Thome for "experiments" (for example, to use the power of the Illearth Stone on them), for his "generals" (like the Giant-Ravers) and so on. Maybe he had many more servants in his "younger days", and those rooms housed them.

[iQuestor]

I think Foul didn't build it, someone earlier did. This is pure opinion and speculation.

My reasoning is that Foul was about destruction rather than creation; He would not have wasted time building when he can just take. I think someone pointed out the corruption of the throne; this seems to indicate to me that it was something built for another use, then Foul moved in. If he had built it, it would not have corrupted to his use, since it was built by him.

I just had a thought: perhaps this is the castle of the old King and Queen of Kevin Landwaster's time, when the first recorded battle took place. I forget details, but didnt the King become corrupted by despite and Kevin sided with the Queen, and then called the fire lions, etc etc? I am on vacation, dont have my books. Could someone look this up??

Other than this, I do not think we can answer anything about this more concrete than speculation. But I do like to think about it, and wonder if we will find out anything about it in TLC.

[Warmark]

I just had a thought: perhaps this is the castle of the old King and Queen of Kevin Landwaster's time, when the first recorded battle took place. I forget details, but didnt the King become corrupted by despite and Kevin sided with the Queen, and then called the fire lions, etc etc? I am on vacation, dont have my books. Could someone look this up??

I always thoguth that Doriender Corishev was the City/castle from which the King and Queen ruled. Then i am almost sure Berek ran eastwards to Mount Thunder to call the fire loins, although this might just be my imagination.

[iQuestor]

you are probably right, I do not have my books. I will look it up when I get back.

[Xar]

I always thoguth that Doriender Corishev was the City/castle from which the King and Queen ruled. Then i am almost sure Berek ran eastwards to Mount Thunder to call the fire loins, although this might just be my imagination.

Of course... he called the Fire Loins, and that's how he became the Lord-Fatherer... it all makes sense now!

[Warmark]

[Sandgorgon rider]

Some useful quotes from Ridjeck Thome chapter from TPTP which might aid the discussion.

It was obviously not Giant-work; it lacked anything which might intrude on the absolute exaction of its shape, lacked the Giantish enthusiam for detail. Instead, it seemed to surpass any kind of mortal craft. It was preternaturally perfect

and

Foul's Creche was the domain of a being who understood perfection-a being who loathed life, not because it was any threat to him, but because is mortal infestations offended the defining passion of his existence.

and

All this part of the Creche (behind the secret doors) was for Lord Foul's private use; no ur-viles or other creatures intruded, had ever intruded.

These quotes seem to indicate that Giants were not involved in the construction of Ridjeck Thome unless Foul has so corrupted it over time that not even a Giant could recognize the Giantish influence.

The secret area was reserved for Foul alone. Probably so he could get away from the life forms he loathed even his slaves and allies. Maybe he just liked to wander the empty hallways for a little "Me time"

Foul himself seemed to have no personal fear from any creatures in the Land, although I guess he could have devised the near impermeability of Ridjeck Thome to protect his armies or merely to keep people from bothering him. However I still stick with the theory that RT was built under the authority of High Lord Kevin probably at the urging of Foul.

An interesting question is, if RT was built by the people of the land at the time of High Lord Kevin, why was it built to be so impregnable? Who or what was it built to protect against?

By the way Fire Loins

[Tulizar]

Some useful quotes from Ridjeck Thome chapter from TPTP which might aid the discussion.

It was obviously not Giant-work; it lacked anything which might intrude on the absolute exaction of its shape, lacked the Giantish enthusiam for detail. Instead, it seemed to surpass any kind of mortal craft. It was preternaturally perfect

Like I said earlier, I could really get into and enjoy a nice backstory of Foul's fortress, but this quote seems to make it clear that RT's construction was beyond the abilities of any mortal. It might not be as detailed as Giant-craft, but even they are mortal. The Lords were mortal. All Land-dwellers were mortal.

The idea that it was prenaturally perfect suggests (to me anyway) an odd perfection. It is unnatural. Not perfect by the Land's standards, but supernaturally perfect.

I don't know, maybe I'm reading into it too much.


.

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

I think Foul always strives for perfection, but his perverse nature falls short of it. Of course, that would be 'his' perfection, and he does have kind of an anger problem and abuse issues, as well as one heck of an ego. Either way, he isn't much of a "Maker" of quality when it comes to creating living things, but he's probably a bit better at creating 'perfect' walls.

[Tulizar]

I think Foul always strives for perfection, but his perverse nature falls short of it. Of course, that would be 'his' perfection

Yep. That's what the Jeherrin refer to as the Theory of Relafoulaty (or Foulativity.) Everything is relative to Mr Foul.

[Avatar]

Thanks SGR. I think I think that Foul built it. Perfection is only possible without life.

And this makes me wonder, is Foul a personification of Order?

Who other than Foul in the Land is not mortal? Elohim maybe? (We don't know if they're mortal or not do we?) And the Creator can't enter the Land...


--A