Thomas Covenant, hero?

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:57 pm

Yeah, thirty is sooooooooooooooo old.

Post by **Blue_Spawn** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:59 pm

Well, he certainly seems old. As all he does is act grumpy all the time.

Post by **[Syl]** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:05 pm

Heh, well, he doesn't have a whole lot of reasons (any?) to be cheerful. He can't even really say to himself, "Hey, at least I have my health." And maybe this is another reason... one of the few things he has left is his sanity, and now he sees himself losing even that. Add that to how deadly it can be for him if he does indeed lose it, and his reasoning starts to seem much more reasonable.

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:06 pm

Well, many people are grouchy when they are sick, when dumped by their spouse for no reason they can control, are forcibly seperated from a child that they love, and when they are socially osctracized.

Do you not understand this?

Post by **Landwaster** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:07 pm

Not talking about why he's grumpy ... talking about why Lena would have thought he was a bit of orright.

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:14 pm

Well, I was responding to this:

Well, he certainly seems old. As all he does is act grumpy all the time.

As for Lena, school girl crush is a good way of describing it. Here was a stranger, and she might have never even MET a stranger before, one who seems to possibly be the reincarnation of the Land's Greatest Hero, one that has been foretold in prophecies and carries a talisman of great power. Even his very grouchiness would have seemed exotic to her...and she saw him fight the Gray Slayer (or so she believes). She has dreamed of marrying a Lord, and here is someone whom she thinks might be one in disguise...

Post by **Landwaster** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:21 pm

Well the baggage he has as legend reborn, found from other world on KW .. etc ... it'd be like meeting a Beatle in the 60s.

Post by **Forestal** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:23 pm

a lord in disguise... that an interesting way to look at covenant...

i would have thought of him more of an unfettered one personally... its an interesting comparison isn't it...

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:03 pm

duchess of malfi:

As for Lena, school girl crush is a good way of describing it. Here was a stranger, and she might have never even MET a stranger before, one who seems to possibly be the reincarnation of the Land's Greatest Hero, one that has been foretold in prophecies and carries a talisman of great power. Even his very grouchiness would have seemed exotic to her...and she saw him fight the Gray Slayer (or so she believes). She has dreamed of marrying a Lord, and here is someone whom she thinks might be one in disguise...

Well, I agree with the schoolgirl crush thing.

But I don't think Lena wanted to marry a Lord. She wanted to
BECOME a Lord.

"I could not marry a cattleherd who desires no more than suru-pamaerl for wife. Rather, I would go to the Loresraat as Atirian my mother did, and I would not stay and falter no matter what trials the Lord put upon me, until I became a Lord."

Dang.

I had to read parts from Kevin's Watch through part of Lena to find that
quote. Got me all angry at Covenant all over again!

Post by **Seafoam Understone** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:00 pm

Alas for a young girl's hopes and dreams only to be shattered by a man she would die for. Irony at it's best.

Post by **Blue_Spawn** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:55 pm

Such is the stuff.

-Corwin

Post by **Landwaster** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:10 pm

Yeah its pretty tragic ... SRD definitely ensured we knew the exact characteristics of each person in the Land ... so anything affecting them; we can know exactly how it did affect them.

Post by **Skyweir** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 6:25 pm

isnt it interesting .. the amazingness of Donaldson's word-smithry!!

whether you like TC or not .. as soon as you become involved in reading his chrons. you are engaged with this character .. you love him, you hate him, we discuss him inside out ..

this is a mark of a brilliant piece of character development by any author ..

i never fail to be in awe of his works, his talent nor his penmanship .. truly a master of the written word

Post by **Furls Fire** » Sun Oct 05, 2003 4:50 am

HEAR HEAR SKY!!!

I've always said he's brilliant, the way he can take a character and just make you love, hate, grief for, rave at, pity, cheer for...like a "real" person. It's truly the work of a master.

He's a cut above!!

I can't WAIT for the Last Chrons!!!

Post by **Forestal** » Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:24 am

i think the last crons will b like a bible on the side of my bed... like the 1st two crons really...

Post by **Skyweir** » Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:28 pm

aye tis truth!!

furls I share you passion re: Donaldson .. words can not appropriately express the absolutely phenomenal appreciation I have for SRD. To me SRD is indeed .. ;)a god

.. any author who can create such a sound, solid and intricate world and characters .. that the depth of a reality and supportable credibilty that TCTC has .. has the makings of a creator of the highest order.

Tolkien is yet another god .. what awe inspiring brilliance .. and imho .. .. on some levels TC's world is even more intricate and complex

even though Tolkien's authorship is that cut above all others

his world has layers too

yer know .. layers .. like an onion

Post by **Furls Fire** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:45 am

Tolkien is the MASTER!! He is the god that all others followed! SRD runs an extremely close second.

Both worlds are extraordinary. The history and depth of Tolkien's world is nothing short of brilliant!!

True Creators, both of them.

ALL HAIL THE MASTERS!!!

Post by **Dragonlily** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:55 am

Skyweir said:

even though Tolkien's authorship is that cut above all others

Here's my chance! I said this to an group of about a dozen, but it's a point worth making again. It looks like one of those things SRD deliberately set out to do differently from Tolkien, when he was planning the 1st Chrons:

Quote from Joy, Fantasticrealms list on Yahoo:

Tell me, if you were scurrying across an unknown landscape, near starving and pursued by evil beings, would you be rhapsodizing about the plant life? Once you knew it was inedible, that is. Would you be overwhelmed by landscape? Of course not. You would be focused on dragging your unsteady knees through one step at a time. A bush, if it were large enough, would mean a possible place to hide and rest, and the leaves would only matter if they had dew to drink. A short space of level ground without rocks to turn your ankle, would mean more than a vista of the next valley.

To my mind, Tolkien kept losing track of the story because his viewpoint kept straying from that of his characters.

Donaldson keeps the viewpoint of TCTC focused inside the head of Covenant, with Covenant's awarenesses. To my mind that makes it much more real than Tolkien.

Post by **Skyweir** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 3:09 am

I take your point Joy about Tolkiens focus on his world .. but I think that this focus was also for the benefit of his characters and the reader .. the Hobbits who had never before strayed beyond Hobbiton and Frodo and Sam particular not even beyond the Shire

So for them .. yes it was a scary journey .. but also a discovery of a greater world beyond the small one they were accustomed to ..

I actually really appreciated Tolkiens depth of description for me it made his creation all the more real and interesting to me ..

But I know of some that dont like FotR because of this ..

The same can be said of TCTC - LFB .. the first book in the series .. even SRD himself concedes is over wordy for some ..

Personally I enjoyed this quality in SRD too

**** edited cos I have bilbo in the brain .. and clearly i meant Frodo ****

Post by **Forestal** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:50 am

i tried 2 read LOTR but i couldn't... TCTC could easily be the last series of books i ever read... lol

Thomas Covenant, hero?

Tolkien Comparison