Do *you* know the Secret?

[DukkhaWaynhim]

My wife just purchased the DVD 'The Secret,' a spiritual/auto-psychological product which was apparently featured earlier this year on Oprah. I'm not certain, but I think it was an Aussie lady who authored it.

After watching it, I have some observations of my own, but I'd also like to know if anyone else has heard of it or delved into it, and what you think about it.

Here is a summary and a few of my own thoughts on it:

The Secret is presented as the 'Law of Attraction': in short, we attract the situations, people, and successes/failures of our lives by the way we send our thoughts and patterns of thinking into the universe. The universe acts as a 'your wish is my command' to the underlying messages we send out. So, for example, by negatively obsessing about trying to get out of debt, I am sending a negative message out into the universe which responds by making certain that my debt is always there. If I instead positively visualize paying that debt and making certain I stay out of debt for the rest of my life, the universe responds by making that request come to fruition. In other words, through an internalized three-step process of Ask, Believe, Receive, the universe acts as the genie of the lamp in making your internal wishes come true.

My observations:
1) The Secret is packaged for the Oprah crowd, so scientists and academic thinkers will be turned off by the pseudo-science psycho-spiritual babble they use. Stylistically, it is trying to ride the coat-tails of the Da Vinci Code, and name-drops a lot while also combining the waning mojo of many successful self-helpers like the Chicken Soup guy, the Mars/Venus guy, etc.

2) At its core, I find the Secret compelling because it is true that our patterns of thought can become action that ripples outward and may eventually ripple back to us in ways that we deem spiritual, karmic, meta-physical, divine, magical, or at least freakishly coincidental.

3) The scientist in me was very upset when the video (in my opinion) crossed the line into irresponsibility by showcasing a woman who said she cured herself of breast cancer through a combination of positive thinking and watching sitcoms - and specifically without chemo or radiation. I don't want to discount miracles, but marketing this kind of thing to the masses is misleading at best.

4) As a guy, I realize this video isn't pitched at me - I don't watch Oprah [even though my wife makes sure I always know what she's up to ]. So, I shouldn't complain that it all seemed a little hokey. Having said that, I think the overall message is a good one - we do have significant control over our own destinies, simply because we have the ability to think, feel, shape our thoughts, and then act on those thoughts every moment... and that line of thinking takes me back to one of my favorite movies, Changing Lanes, starring Ben Affleck and Samuel L Jackson. The lesson I took from that movie is that we have the ability to do great good or ill on a moment-by-moment basis - and we have only our conscience as a guide to know the difference.

OK, I rambled out near the end, but it's late on a Sunday night and I don't want to go back and edit

Anyone else hear about the Secret? What do you all think?

dw

[Fist and Faith]

I thought it was an infomercial. I couldn't get through more than several minutes of it.

[Avatar]

My initial reaction is of course one of healthy scepticism. That said, I do have a certain affinity for the "think positive" (which is all this really is) point of view.

If reality is as malleable as I like to imagine, then we should be able to mould it consciously as well as unconsciously.

Whether it is possible to be as specific as DW seems to suggest the video claims, well...maybe not. Thinking positive can't ever hurt. As long as you're already prepared for the worst.

--A

[Zarathustra]

There's a big difference between positive thinking and wishful thinking. That difference is approximately, "I can do anything I set my mind to (within reason)," and "The universe will give me whatever I want if I believe hard enough."

I can't believe adults buy this stuff. It's what you tell children in fairy tales.

"Ask, believe, receive" makes me want to puke. I can't describe how violently I'm opposed to such infantile thinking. Rather, I'd suggest, "Formulate a plan, put it into action, stick with it and don't give up."

Which one sounds harder? Yep, you got it. Reality is always harder than fantasy.

[Fist and Faith]

Come on, Malik, take a stand, willya??? I agree completely. Nothing of substance, of value, is free.

[Loredoctor]

Wishful thinking is just that: 'wishful' thinking.

Excellent post, Malik23.

[Avatar]

There's a big difference between positive thinking and wishful thinking.

Very true.

--A

[Damelon]

That about sums it up, Malik23.

Over the weekend, I talked to a friend who'd seen it. Her reaction was about the same as Dukkha's. She also brought up the example of the woman with breast cancer as the point where it stepped over the edge to irresponsibility.

[A Gunslinger]

My wife just purchased the DVD 'The Secret,' a spiritual/auto-psychological product which was apparently featured earlier this year on Oprah. I'm not certain, but I think it was an Aussie lady who authored it.

After watching it, I have some observations of my own, but I'd also like to know if anyone else has heard of it or delved into it, and what you think about it.

Here is a summary and a few of my own thoughts on it:

The Secret is presented as the 'Law of Attraction': in short, we attract the situations, people, and successes/failures of our lives by the way we send our thoughts and patterns of thinking into the universe. The universe acts as a 'your wish is my command' to the underlying messages we send out. So, for example, by negatively obsessing about trying to get out of debt, I am sending a negative message out into the universe which responds by making certain that my debt is always there. If I instead positively visualize paying that debt and making certain I stay out of debt for the rest of my life, the universe responds by making that request come to fruition. In other words, through an internalized three-step process of Ask, Believe, Receive, the universe acts as the genie of the lamp in making your internal wishes come true.

My observations:
1) The Secret is packaged for the Oprah crowd, so scientists and academic thinkers will be turned off by the pseudo-science psycho-spiritual babble they use. Stylistically, it is trying to ride the coat-tails of the Da Vinci Code, and name-drops a lot while also combining the waning mojo of many successful self-helpers like the Chicken Soup guy, the Mars/Venus guy, etc.

2) At its core, I find the Secret compelling because it is true that our patterns of thought can become action that ripples outward and may eventually ripple back to us in ways that we deem spiritual, karmic, meta-physical, divine, magical, or at least freakishly coincidental.

3) The scientist in me was very upset when the video (in my opinion) crossed the line into irresponsibility by showcasing a woman who said she cured herself of breast cancer through a combination of positive thinking and watching sitcoms - and specifically without chemo or radiation. I don't want to discount miracles, but marketing this kind of thing to the masses is misleading at best.

4) As a guy, I realize this video isn't pitched at me - I don't watch Oprah [even though my wife makes sure I always know what she's up to ]. So, I shouldn't complain that it all seemed a little hokey. Having said that, I think the overall message is a good one - we do have significant control over our own destinies, simply because we have the ability to think, feel, shape our thoughts, and then act on those thoughts every moment... and that line of thinking takes me back to one of my favorite movies, Changing Lanes, starring Ben Affleck and Samuel L Jackson. The lesson I took from that movie is that we have the ability to do great good or ill on a moment-by-moment basis - and we have only our conscience as a guide to know the difference.

OK, I rambled out near the end, but it's late on a Sunday night and I don't want to go back and edit

Anyone else hear about the Secret? What do you all think?

dw

I have heard of the thing, and above all else it is an unbelieveable piece of marketing.

I mean, to call a repackaging of the "Law of Attraction", which has been around conceptually for 100 years...the "Secret" is a stroke of genius. Who deosn't want ot be in on a secret? To be the one(s) who hold the keys to the palace? That and if you have ever seen the book...it comes in a bound case whith what appears to be a seal on front, which in and of itself has the tantalizing look of an ancient text...giving it a DaVinci code feel.

As for packaging to the Oprah crowd... I disagree with that. Winfrey, as I understand it picked up on the publication and video well after its release because she claims that without meaning to or applying the recorded process, she was using the tentants of "the secret" in her own life for years.

Heres what I think, FWIW. I beleive that people can indeed create their own hapiness and misery based on choices and reaction. Someone who has a positive outlook and is flexible mentally and spritually will survive the loss of loved ones, be able to recognize oppurtunities to succeed and thrive, etc. , where someone stteped in misery and depression will be too wrapped up in self pity and loathing to so the same. Nothing is a greater dstraction from the "all" than the "me".

The idea, however that by picturing yourself wearing Gucci and driving a BMW, that a car will appear in your driveway with a load of designer clothes in the trunk is proposterous. I think the flaw in the "secret" is the propensity towards feeding our cultural esoteria. it reinforces our need for instant gratification vis a vis materialism, instead of focusing on the spritual aspect.

The foundations of the secret oare truly born of some tenants of Transcendental Mediation...I think the movement would have been better served to fcus on the spirit rhater than the material.

[Avatar]

I beleive that people can indeed create their own hapiness and misery based on choices and reaction.

Agree wholeheartedly.

--A

[Nathan]

But do we really ever make any real choices or are our actions simply a product of our experiences?

[DukkhaWaynhim]

I think we can make choices, real choices, that break away from our experiences -- to frame it in SRD terms, breaking out of the 'habit of despair', perhaps. The part about 'The Secret' that is compelling to me is just that -- cut away the hype and pseudo-scientific jargon marketing layer (please), and the core is that if you act based on your vision of how you want things to be, your surroundings are more likely to respond in kind (but within reason).

To me, it's another way of stating that people 'make their own luck.' Sure, dumb luck causes you to win the lottery against utterly ridiculous odds, but you'll never win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

I am often surrounded by negative people at work, that are their own worst enemies, because everything is filtered through their bleak take on the state of the world. I'm not suggesting that we should all become Pollyanna, but we so very often reap exactly what we sow, without even realizing it.

Having said that, I can pop blood vessels straining to visualize a Ferrari in my driveway, but that won't give me a Ferrari -- just a headache, perhaps a stroke

dw

[Cameraman Jenn]

Bah Bah Bah! I have had WAY TOO MUCH of Heatherly's buying into crap like that. The universe does NOT cater to your whims. It's a ridiculous can of tripe. I am all for positive thinking and I am 99% positive in my everyday life. However, I also act to make the things in my life go right. I put those things in motion. I go out and make the things I want to happen actually happen. That's the way the universe works. I didn't just wish for FBH and it magically happened. I didn't just wish to read for Donaldson and it magically happened. I worked hard for that.

[Fist and Faith]

But do we really ever make any real choices or are our actions simply a product of our experiences?

What the...!! Hey, who let this guy in here!!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv!!!



Good to see you around again, Nathan.

The idea, however that by picturing yourself wearing Gucci and driving a BMW, that a car will appear in your driveway with a load of designer clothes in the trunk is proposterous. I think the flaw in the "secret" is the propensity towards feeding our cultural esoteria. it reinforces our need for instant gratification vis a vis materialism, instead of focusing on the spritual aspect.

Well, we can always hope that, whether it's The Secret and its promise of material success, or Illusions and its promise of magical powers, anyone who starts down the path for the "wrong" reason will soon gain some "true" rewards, understand the real lesson, and quickly give up the pursuit of the shiny prize.

To have some deep feeling about Buddhism is not the point; we just do what we should do, like eating supper and going to bed. This is Buddism.
- Shunryu Suzuki (1905-1971)

[Holsety]

How come malik is suddenly malik23? It's like suddenly the #s are added on...

Anyway...

The idea, however that by picturing yourself wearing Gucci and driving a BMW, that a car will appear in your driveway with a load of designer clothes in the trunk is proposterous. I think the flaw in the "secret" is the propensity towards feeding our cultural esoteria. it reinforces our need for instant gratification vis a vis materialism, instead of focusing on the spritual aspect.

The foundations of the secret oare truly born of some tenants of Transcendental Mediation...I think the movement would have been better served to fcus on the spirit rhater than the material.

Ya, in many ways it's reminiscent of the 'christian' idea of a sort of gospel of wealth, which is that if you follow god you'll not only receive a place in heaven and stuff, but you'll get a nice car, a nice house, be provided for, etc, when the earlier spirit of christianity was a very stoic be good on earth and you'll be rewarded later sorta thing, and involved serious personal sacrifices. IMO one of the most important things is that there was no guarantee of heaven, a leap of faith had to be made - I don't agree with it, but there's something touching about such a decision (to me). IMO it's not necessarily bad that someone gets a nice car, but it seems to imply that wealth is the direct result of moral superiority or living life the right way. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.

I am not referring to Carnegie's idea of the "Gospel of Wealth" in caps about upper class philanthropy. There's some other term for the above stuff, but I don't remember it.

I don't think the law would really make me happy. In terms of material stuff, my main reqs besides food/shelter/clothing are a shower, toilet, AC, books, and access to a swimming pool (public is acceptable). I do community service and the like, but that's more because I like helping teach little kids, talking to people who work and eat in soup kitchens (occasional), stuff like that. I don't really feel a moral obligation as much as it is that I enjoy being involved. Right now, at least, I don't really have any spiritual needs, I just sort of read and think about stuff, talk with friends, stuff like that. I don't get to come on to KW all the time, but it's nice to have an ear in a place where other people like Donaldson. I also think the Tank has more interesting political stuff than what I get talking to people my age. For all I know, any of these things might change as I get older, but right now, I'm fine.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd find The Secret more credible if it wasn't being marketed! As it is, I'm not likely to believe someone who's making a living marketing a way to be happy; someone who knows 'the path' to happiness shouldn't need to sell it. Really, I do agree with it somewhat, but I'm also disgusted.

I didn't just wish to read for Donaldson and it magically happened. I worked hard for that.

Ya. In my case, meanwhile, it was a thing of utter chance, nothing to do with me hoping for happiness. I noticed one of his things in a bookstore, and then realized that a fantasy art book I owned had an illustration from Lord Foul's Bane (Drool Rockworm, and the Staff of Law). I basically bought it on impulse. The same story, with minor variations, can be told for an innumerable number of books which I've read.

[Avatar]

Haha, she means be a proof-reader or whatever it is she is for him. And Malik has always been Malik23, you just never noticed. Read R.A Wilson's Illuminatus! trilogy if you're confused.

But do we really ever make any real choices or are our actions simply a product of our experiences?

Yes, we make real choices. If I have to, I'll ressurrect the the Free Will thread...

No only do our choices and our reactions count, but never forget that we choose our reactions too.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd find The Secret more credible if it wasn't being marketed! As it is, I'm not likely to believe someone who's making a living marketing a way to be happy; someone who knows 'the path' to happiness shouldn't need to sell it.

Agreed. It's like those books on how to make a million bucks: Write a book like this and sell it to suckers.

--A

[DukkhaWaynhim]

I'm torn on this one...

The annoying clamor of 'Improve your life. Gather love, wealth, health, happiness, mind-blowing sex with other people, cute puppies, whiter teeth, fresh breath, and a massive house that you don't ever have to clean, all for the low price of $19.95 (plus $79 handling charge).
[Yes, very grating, and makes you question its legitimacy]

versus

Why can't they make a buck on this message, if people are willing to pay for it. It sure couldn't be any worse than any Ronco product, pet rocks, the Abdominizer, etc. And, if it works even in only the smallest ways, it's still cheaper than a night out on the town, and may actually do lasting good.

In the words of some wiser Watcher at some point in the past, "Meh."

dw

[Holsety]

Haha, she means be a proof-reader or whatever it is she is for him. And Malik has always been Malik23, you just never noticed. Read R.A Wilson's Illuminatus! trilogy if you're confused.

I've only read the Schrodinger's Cat Trilogy, and that was when I was younger and stupider in any case. Are you making reference to the spread of disinformation (fnords)? Or is there something specific about malik, or 23?

[Avatar]

Illuminatus! is the preceding trilogy.

Malik is a main character, and 23 is a number of some significance in the series, and in Discordianism in general, as well as in the writings of Aleister Crowley and Burroughs.

Yeah, I dunno DW. If you're selling it to me, it sounds like it's more for your benefit than for mine. *shrug*

--A

[Zarathustra]

Malik was a name that I thought I made up when I was 17 and lived a sheltered life in the woods of Kentucky. I didn't even realize it was a real, Muslim name. Anyway, I started writing a series of books, and Malik was the main character. His journey is deeply philosophical, a journey that took me into territory I later discovered was also covered by Robert Anton Wilson (well, some of it, at least). I felt a particular kinship with his model agnosticism, his "mystical" experiences that led him to reject naive realism and dogmatic rationalism. There were numerous instances of synchronicity between his thoughts and mine, a synchronicity that culminated on July 23 when I learned about the 23 enigma filtered through his book, The Cosmic Trigger. In this book, I learned of the character Joseph Malik, and that July 23 was the most important date in this huge web of interconnected memes. That was a strange day.

So, yeah, it's kind of a tribute to RAW. But more importantly, it is a reference to my own journey, and the issues I'm exploring through my own writings.