The onset of the Sunbane

[I'm Murrin]

Malik hit the nail on the head before I got here, but I still want to bring something up on the Law/Earthpower thing that I hadn't thought on much before: It's another piece based on Der Ring des Nibelungen. Wotan's staff, with all of his laws carved into it, was broken, and it brought an end to the gods and a freedom to the world, because the staff had come to represent the gods' power and existence.
Berek's Staff, with the Runes on it that guide the Law, was broken, and the Law became mutable, accessible to those who have the power, because although it was not the Law itself that was broken, the Staff had come to represent the shape of those Laws.

[Zarathustra]

I'm sure it is written somewhere (here, the GI, the books), but what exactly does the Staff do, again? Does it allow one to focus and use Earthpower through Law? Or does it allow one to alter and manipulate Law with EP? Why is it called the Staff of Law if it is in fact a tool to wield EP? Are all uses of EP merely rearrangements or restructuring of EP? Clearly, there are some rearrangements of EP that are destructive (RoD, for instance). If this is how it works, I suppose the Staff could enable "enhanced" use of Earthpower in ways that don't violate Law. But then, how did Drool use it for evil ends?

It's really a strange device, this Staff. Its mere presence supports Law. But it can also be used to *pervert* Law in the wrong hands. I don't get how that works.

[Herem]

Drool was able to stain the moon, create malformed animals etc in LFB because he also had the Illearth Stone, as far as I recall - he and the other Cavewights the Quest encounter under Mount Thunder were prematurely aged because of the Stone. When Elena fights Covenant with the Staff in TPTP she is controlled by the Stone as well.

I'd be interested to see if any other of the banes which lie under the earth become evident - having recently reactivated my interest in TCTC by re-reading the first two chronicles, I think I need to get hold of Runes to answer this and other questions...

[wayfriend]

In short: the Staff of Law began as a device for the Lords. As a "means of articulation", it was better than anything that they had. With it, they were more able to profoundly learn Law and use Earthpower. But over time, through use, the Staff became "unified" with the Earthpower/Law it channelled. So when it was destroyed, Earthpower/Law was weakened.

(If it had been destroyed in Berek's time, say, Earthpower/Law would not have been so weakened.)

And it's a Donaldson tenet that all power can be used for good or ill. So Drool could use it, although its fundamental opposition to Drool's nature eventually crippled him.

[DukkhaWaynhim]

The Staff of Law was created as a weapon to enforce the laws of Lands' Earth through the expression of Earthpower, the Land's manifestation of Law.

The Staff of law was created as an Earthpower weapon to express Law. The primary tool of Law was destroyed, not by any old means, but by the wild magic that destroys peace. I think it was because it was wild magic that attacked the Staff of Law that the Law itself was damaged. Wild magic is not just a physical force. It has metaphysical/metaphorical properties, so destroying the tool of Law with wild magic is synonymous with damaging the underlying Law.

The original Staff of Law could have been used by anyone, even Foul. But, Foul was wise enough to know that using it directly would have harmed or diminished him... but putting it into Drool's hands and eventually causing the Staff to be destroyed... well, that played right into his hands, didn't it?

dw

[Zarathustra]

The primary tool of Law was destroyed, not by any old means, but by the wild magic that destroys peace. I think it was because it was wild magic that attacked the Staff of Law that the Law itself was damaged. Wild magic is not just a physical force. It has metaphysical/metaphorical properties, so destroying the tool of Law with wild magic is synonymous with damaging the underlying Law.

That's interesting. It goes along with the Runes idea that white gold can be used to abuse Law.

[wayfriend]

Donaldson says very clearly what happened.

For the Staff of Law had been formed by Berek Halfhand as a tool to serve and uphold the Law. He had fashioned the Staff from a limb of the One Tree as a way to wield Earthpower in defense of the health of the Land, in support of the natural order of life. And because Earthpower was the strength of mystery and spirit, the Staff became the thing it served. It was the Law; the Law was incarnate in the Staff. The tool and its purpose were one.

And the Staff had been destroyed.

That loss had weakened the very fiber of the Law. A crucial support was withdrawn, and the Law faltered.

There's more in the GI.

Now. The Staff of Law was created as a means to wield the energy of Earthpower safely--i.e. without violating the various constraints of Law. But because this is magic rather than technology (because it deals in symbolic unities rather than in discrete mechanisms), the Staff cannot be inherently separate from the forces and rules which it exerts. It's not a light switch, essentially distinct from the flow of electricity which it enables. In a certain sense, the Staff *is* both Law and Earthpower, just as white gold *is* wild magic. In fantasy, in magic, the tool cannot be distinguished from what the tool does.

So. Even though the Staff was never essential to the original existence of either Law or Earthpower, the simple fact of its creation means that it participates in both, and can therefore: a) strengthen both, or b) weaken both (by being destroyed).

[Zarathustra]

Donaldson says very clearly what happened.

The Staff of Law was created as a means to wield the energy of Earthpower safely--i.e. without violating the various constraints of Law.

That must be the quote I was thinking about when I said, "I suppose the Staff could enable "enhanced" use of Earthpower in ways that don't violate Law."

However, I don't see how either of the quotes you provided answers the issue I raised: "But then, how did Drool use it for evil ends? . . . Its mere presence supports Law. But it can also be used to *pervert* Law in the wrong hands. I don't get how that works."

If, as its essential nature, the Staff enables safe uses of earthpower--"i.e. without violating the various constraints of Law"--then how does Drool violate Law with it? If this is what the Staff is for, then how is it used in a way contrary to its very nature?

[DukkhaWaynhim]

Ah, but just as the laws of men can be used for self-interest and unintended dark purposes, so might Law expressed through Earthpower be used to serve a malignant will. So, it was possible for Drool to wreak harm using Law for ill intent, but this use defied the Staff's purpose, and the twisting required to make that happen took its toll on the Cavewight's body - so it came with a cost. Foul couldn't directly wield the Staff, nor did he want to -- his purpose was better served by exposing it to the Lords so it could eventually be destroyed, taking down one of the Old Lords' best weapons against him.

dw

[The Dark Overlord]

Wayfriend wrote:

I don't think Covenant can be blamed for blasting the Staff of Law. In fact I think it was one of the few things(if not the only one) he can't be blamed for. It was totally unintentional and unkowing on his part.

I disagree. That's one of the sad things we must accept.

The wild magic is an intense magnification, if you will, of Covenant's will. If wild magic destroyed the staff, then something in Covenant, for a moment, wanted the Staff destroyed. I agree, it may have been reflexive or instinctual. But the reflex and instinct is in Covenant.

Covenant knew this. Dare I say, his principals about guilt and power made it impossible for him not to know this. He is responsible for his power, no one else.

This is a fundamental basis of the Second Chronicles - Covenant feeling responsible for destroying the Staff.

Of course Covenant feels guilty, with all that he has done he would heap this upon himself also, but how do you know that he wasn't just defending himself(physically) and he just happened to have his hand on the staff. It was all pretty quick, he didn't really have any time to think and she did have the end of the staff pressing into his throat after all. I think he just happened to have his fingers around the staff because he was being choked/held down by the staff, he wasn't thinking if she uses the staff this will fix her. I don't think he even condidered/realized their would be a reaction, he was trying to stay alive! TPTP says when the blast went down the length of the staff, when it hit(came in contact with) the ring it was repulsed back. I don't think Covenant knew/considered that this was what would have happened at all. It was completely unkowing and unitentional on his part. It was just a reaction from the ring and would have happened if the ring had just been lying(balanced) on the staff without even anyone wearing it.

[wayfriend]

DO, it all comes down to, are Covenant and the wild magic one and the same, or are they seperate? If they are seperate, you can claim that what Covenant did was not intentional. Although even unintentional crimes are crimes nonetheless.

But Covenant's journey in the first Chronicles leads him to the inescapable conclusion ... You are the wild magic. He cannot defeat Lord Foul without accepting that premise. And once accepted, you have to take the good with the bad. So it was Covenant who destroyed the Staff, not some wild magic beyond his control. If the wild magic acted, it was Covenant who acted; if the wild magic chose, it was Covenant who chose.

And, incidently, there was choice: the blast of wild magic did not simply thrust Elena away (which would have been sufficient) or destroy Elena (which would have been merciful), or even sustain him from harm (which would also have worked). No, it incinerated the Staff of Law. Who made that choice? Covenant, whether he realized it or not.

In the core of Covenants bones, he distrusts and despises power. And the Staff represents power. And wild magic is anathema to peace, and regardless of Law... and so, therefore, is Covenant. Covenant (yet) believes he is a victim of the Land, and the Staff represents the Land. So you don't have too look to hard to find unconscious reasons for Covenant wanting to destroy the Staff of Law.

[matrixman]

Very interesting parallel with Wagner's Ring you've brought up, Murrin. Thanks! I've listened to and enjoyed that musical work. Off topic, but it is also a great soundtrack to many scenes in the Covenant film that exists in my head.

The Staff of law was created as an Earthpower weapon to express Law. The primary tool of Law was destroyed, not by any old means, but by the wild magic that destroys peace. I think it was because it was wild magic that attacked the Staff of Law that the Law itself was damaged. Wild magic is not just a physical force. It has metaphysical/metaphorical properties, so destroying the tool of Law with wild magic is synonymous with damaging the underlying Law.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks, DW! Would it also be correct to say that the wild magic was an "amoral" force and that the Staff was a "moral" force? The Staff is a tool of Law, whereas the wild magic is a "neutral" tool that doesn't obey any Law, so it can swing either way. Does that sound right? So the white gold "unravelled" the "moral fibre" of the Staff, heh heh.The relationship between Earthpower and Law has always baffled me a bit, but discussions like these do help a lot. Great posts, everyone!

[Angoid]

It's been ages since I last read the 2nd Chronicles, but am I right by remembering that Andelain was strong enough to resist the Sunbane, especially in the early days of TWL? I seem to remember TC entering Andelain with Linden (and possibly Sunder) and saying something like, "This is what the Land should be like" and Sunder disliking it because it was nothing like what he is used to.

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the 2nd Chronicles to hand so cannot check.

[Avatar]

You're exactly right. The remnants of the Forestal Caer Caveral "held the glaive of law" in Andelaine and resisted the sun-bane.

--A

[Angoid]

As I see it, the Sunbane came on gradually after the Council or Lords had been infliltrated and then overthrown by the Raver. I can't imagine the Sunbane being started without the Banefire to kick-start and sustain it (but have still to re-read the "Soothtell" section in TWL).

I like to think that the aura around the sun (that inflicts the cycle of pestilence, desert, rain, and fertility upon the land) had a gradually increasing effect on the daily weather.

So, if a day started, it would have been gradually influenced by whatever sun was being inflicted.

To begin with, it would have been a heatwave lasting a couple of weeks (desert sun), an especially fertile period, a period during which pestilence seemed to flourish, and a prolonged wet period. Remember that each sun (in former generations) could last up to 10 days - what's to say that during its onslaught stage each sun didn't last much longer than that?

Thus the aura would have started out almost impercepibly, with little effect, partly because it didn't have the strength to inflict its full damage at that time (due to lack of sacrifices).

Also, this "slowly slowly catch a monkey" approach would have caught the people of the Land unawares, possibly over many generations .... until it become the fully-fledged Sunbane as we see it when TC and LA arrive in the land.

At some point, the Clave might have made some kind of "announcement" saying that "funny things are happening to the weather, and this is how to get your needs met" and then giving them the sacrifices and instructions on how to wield the Sunbane, using corrupted uses of stone lore (such as how Sunder uses the Orcrest).

Slowly but surely, the Raver-led Clave would have taught the people against their own stone and wood lore (which might have been at least partially effective against the Sunbane) to get them to abandon it.

The sacrifices would have actually fed the Sunbane and speeded it up and not "wielded" it as the Clave would teach.

It seems to me that every sacrifice (such as when Sunder shed the corrupted Marid in TWL) actually fed the Sunbane and made it more powerful.

I've always thought that the destruction of the SoL enabled the Sunbane to exist. The power to create the Sunbane has to be some form of corruption, or power wielded incorrectly and wrongly. The Staff (as I see it) existed as a device through which the Earthpower could be channeled, and upheld the law of the Land.

Drool was able to stain the moon, create malformed animals etc in LFB because he also had the Illearth Stone, as far as I recall - he and the other Cavewights the Quest encounter under Mount Thunder were prematurely aged because of the Stone. When Elena fights Covenant with the Staff in TPTP she is controlled by the Stone as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was because he held the Staff of Law that Drool was prematurely aged. He had used the Stone which had corrupted him, so any use of the SoL would have been a corrupt use. The knock-on effect of that was to age him unto death (whereupon TC was returned to his own world).

[Aleksandr]

I can't imagine the Sunbane being started without the Banefire to kick-start and sustain it (but have still to re-read the "Soothtell" section in TWL).

Why would they have a Banefire if there wasn't already a Sunbane for ther Clave to pretend they were combatting? The Sunbane initially arose from Lord Foul's spiritual presence with in the Earthpower itself. As he grew stronger the Earthpower was warped, and gradually he came to control it. Only when it became dire enough for the Clave to start up its pretense of fighhting the Sunbane could Foul sit back and let Samdhi Sheol and the Banefire take over.

[Angoid]

But we know the Clave were vicious liars (except for the uncorrupted ones in their midst such as Memla) and led by a Raver ..... they had changed history and made things out to be true that were blatantly untrue.

Such as perpetrating such things as Aliantha being deadly poison.

[IrrationalSanity]

Ok, consider the timeline here. We aren't talking about a generation, or two, or even three. It has been 4000 years since Covenant left the land. For the first half of that - "A score of centuries", Foul was pretty much incapacitated. But he wasn't unaware. As he recovered he plotted and planned. Snares within snares.

The land went through a Golden Age. A time of bounty. People forgot about the benefits of Aliantha. They didn't need them, so over time they became history, and then legends. Then after Foul's period of rest, he slowly began his process of corrupting Earthpower and/or the Law. Without the Staff to support it, it became possible.

He gradually dulled the health sense of the people, while at the same time making certain exercizes of power easier. Possibly easier because the people couldn't see that the means were wrong/evil. This enabled the Raver to invade the High Lord undetected, and begin the process that led to the Clave as we see it in TWL.

Somewhere around this point, someone (maybe under the influence of a Raver, maybe even on their own due to an injury) discovered that a drop of blood made certain lore more effective. As this new "Bloodpower" lore spread (interesting how Clave is close to "cleave" or cut) over time, the "Earthpower" lore fell out of use.

Now the stage is set for the introduction of the aura around the Sun. Again, it probably started weak, and didn't have its full effects at first. Maybe the first warpings were minor, and could be cured. But eventually people noticed that those who were on stone at the first touch weren't affected at all. There may have still been a few gravelingases and hirebrands around who could work with stone and wood - but very few, and their powers severely truncated - maybe even ineffective - unless supplemented with the Bloodlore. Eventually their names were slurred and shortened to gravelers and eh-brands.

Now the stage is set for the first ligthing of the banefire, the ultimate manifestation of the Bloodlore, to "fight" this Bane of the Sun, or Sunbane. At first, people gladly gave of their own blood to fight the scourge. But the more they fought, the stronger the Sunbane grew, and the more severe the bloodlettings became. All of life became an aspect of fight against the Sunbane. Things that didn't seem affected - Alinatha, Andelain, the Haruchai - were viewed with skepticisim, even fear.

Now the stage is set for our story to begin in "The Wounded Land".

[KAY1]

I thought it wasnt so much that the Earthpower had been weakened but that it had been corrupted. So again, going along with SRD's using power for good or ill theme. This is one of the reason the bloodguard had no use for earthpower and why they did not try to save it, because they knew that it could be used as a weapon for evil as well as good.

Going off the subject a bit though, I think that is quite narrowminded of them. The bloodguard were too restricted, they weren't prepared to take risks. In a way I think they denied themselves the 'freedom of choice' which is an integral part of the whole series. the Bloodguard/Haruchai will always be bit players because of this I feel. they will never be able to accomplish anything significant because they are holding themselves back.

[SoulBiter]

And then there was the statement made to Covenent when Vain led him to the Hall of Gifts. He was told the lore no longer worked under the Sunbane. But did it really not work or was that more lies told by the Ravers to keep the land under their control.

Dangers bristled in the air. Thinking rapidly, he said, "All the lore of the Lords- everything that used to belong to the Council. It's all here. It's all intact."

"Much is intact," Akkasri said rigidly. "The Council was decadent. Some was lost."

Covenant hardly heard her. "The First and Second Wards." He gestured toward the shining caskets. "The Third Ward? Did they find the Third Ward?" Foreseeing the Ritual of Desecration, Kevin Landwaster had hidden all his knowledge in Seven Wards to preserve it for future Councils; but during High Lord Mhoram's time, only the first two and the last had been found.

"Evidently," a Rider retorted. "Little good it did them."

"Then why" -- Covenant put all his appalled amazement into his voice -- "don't you use it?"

"It is lore for that which no longer exists." The reply had the force of an indictment. "It has no value under the Sunbane."

Oh, hell. Covenant could find no other words for his dismay. Hell and blood.