What's the most unsettling part of the Chronicles?

[lucimay]

Hey guys. First post.

My top 3:

1) Covenant bedding Linden 15 minutes after he finds out that (a) she tried to kill Ceer during one of her power-hungry psychotic episodes, and (b) she killed her mom by stuffing a bunch of Kleenex down her throat. It's not that I'm surprised that Linden would do those things (after all, she's got at least 3 or 4 personality disorders), but I couldn't believe how easily Covenant shrugged it off.

2) The Ramen telling Covenant that Pietten was cleaning the Ranyhyn's wounds with his tongue.

3) Finding out that the 3 Bloodguard who had been possessed by the Raver had had their last 2 fingers cut off so that they would look like Covenant.

and what an excellent first post it was too!!!

i couldn't agree more on all counts!!!

Ah, well... as they say, it's "better to be feared than loved."

you think?

[stormrider]

and what an excellent first post it was too!!!

i couldn't agree more on all counts!!!

Oh good -- I didn't want to be too abrasive in my first post, but I was hoping that I had adequately expressed my dislike (*coughFIERY,PASSIONATE,UNBRIDLEDHATREDcough*) of Linden Avery.

Ah, well... as they say, it's "better to be feared than loved."

you think?

Well, Machiavelli thought so. ...Then again... his philosophical viewpoints often fail to align with my own. Just one of those pithy quotes that sticks in my head. Hmm. Not at all the best person to reference, now that I think about it. Oh well. It somehow seemed relevant at 3 AM.

[emotional leper]

I'm thinking about doing my specialty in Psychiatry, as it combines my love of fixing people with my love of crazy people.

Actually, I like crazy people, too. My B.S. is in psychology, and I'm currently looking into doctoral programs. Trying to get a bit of clinical experience first. I'm primarily interested in working with the criminally disturbed. I've worked around people who had personality disorders, and some of them really do resemble Linden. They bother me more than the Axis I disorders, but for some reason, I've never had a serious problem with a real person -- maybe it's because I have a genuine desire to understand them, whereas with Linden... not so much.

Yah. I got interested in Psychiatry due to my own mental problems. Bipolar II Disorder with Psychotic Features. Spent years on SSRIs, which did nothing. My doctor figured out why a few months ago, after I'd been living (reasonably sanely) off the drugs for a few years, and found out that 5-HTP makes me manic as soon as it hits my system, and that Ecstacy has no effect on me beyond the methamphetamine effects. My brain's serotonin production capabilities seem to have been nearly completely destroyed. So, instead of Dopamine, Serotonin, and Norepinephrine, I just use Dopamine and Serotonin.

[quote="stormrider]

I should hope that Linden and I should get along famously. Even if I have to cut off a few fingers, contract leprosy, write a best selling novel or dozen, and become a gaunt skeleton.

The leprosy thing would probably be the hardest to pull off. Just lose the fingers, stop eating for 3 months, brag about writing a novel that never existed, and lie about the leprosy. If you distract her enough... she might not even notice that you're faking the disease.[/quote]

Yah. The Leprosy would be hard, since apparently more than 90% of the population is immune. I guess I just need to order some samples and a syringe. Or start making friends with lots of Nine Band Armadillos.

Of course, we're talking about physical leprosy. Emotionally, I've already lost all feeling.

[stormrider]

Yah. I got interested in Psychiatry due to my own mental problems. Bipolar II Disorder with Psychotic Features.

I've always been very interested in Bipolar Disorder -- my aunt has BP I, and she was diagnosed when I was about 5. She bought a gun and ran off to Arizona, and when my grandparents went to her house to look for her, they discovered hundreds of things that she'd borrowed from various people (over about a 10 year period) -- a lot of those items were stupid little things like lotions and fingernail polish. She had put little sticky labels on each item, designating the people to whom they belonged, and laid them out (in alphabetical order) all over her living room.

Spent years on SSRIs, which did nothing. My doctor figured out why a few months ago, after I'd been living (reasonably sanely) off the drugs for a few years, and found out that 5-HTP makes me manic as soon as it hits my system

From everything I've ever heard, anti-depressants are often the worst things for Bipolar people to take (because they're so likely to induce manic episodes), unless they're taken in conjunction with mood stabilizers. My aunt figured that out the hard way.

and that Ecstacy has no effect on me beyond the methamphetamine effects. My brain's serotonin production capabilities seem to have been nearly completely destroyed. So, instead of Dopamine, Serotonin, and Norepinephrine, I just use Dopamine and Serotonin.

Ecstasy is a very tempermental drug, anyway, so I can see how a seratonin deficiency would render it (almost) inert. Interestingly, Ecstasy also fails to work for a lot of people who are taking mood stabilizers. I know this from various personal experiences, so I have no research to back it up. But it seems fairly intuitive, anyway -- medication (like Lithium) that affects/regulates norepinephrine and serotonin release and synthesis (respectively) would obviously have an impact on a drug like Ecstasy. The mitigating effect mood stabilizers sometimes have on Ecstasy seems to be greater than that of any (or almost any) other drug. One question, however, is whether the mood stabilizers themselves are the primary mitigating/preventative agent, or whether the individual's doubt/concern that the drug won't work prevents the expected drug response: sort of a "backward" placebo effect. I've had quite a few friends "psych themselves out" of their roll (which is a huge waste of money, might I add). I think it's probably a combination of the mood stabilizers and the mental state of the individual. Of course, mental state influences any drug, but Ecstasy is the only one I know of that can just not work at all, based on your mindset.

we're talking about physical leprosy. Emotionally, I've already lost all feeling.

...Well, Linden has a "fixing things" complex of her own, so that might well be enough to win her over.

[emotional leper]

I was under the impression, from what I read, that giving a Bipolar person an antidepressant or a mood stabaliser isn't so much the problem, as a Doctor proscribing both an antidepressant/mood stabaliser with an antipsychotic (which I was given, due to the whole psychosis aspect that was always attached to my rounds of depression and mania.) This is a problem, as it will actually induce fits of mania.

In re: the ecstacy, I was in a perfectly fine mood, as was everyone else at the party. I took one bean that the testing kit said was almost pure MDMA, ground it up, and held it in my mouth between my gums and my lips for half an hour. All I got was jittery. That alone wouldn't have raised much suspicion, but given the fact that, as I said previously, taking the 5-HTP, which would raise Serotonin levels in my system, caused me to go manic, my doctor felt that it was fairly safe to concluded that my Serotonin production was minimal to non-existant. (Oddly enough, he didn't know whether it was possible for the brain to produce no serotonin.)

As the Bipolar Disorder and Kleptomania, personally don't have a large enough statistical sampling, but from anechdotal evidence I would say there does seem to be a correlation between Bipolar and Kleptomania. Or maybe, when you're manic and having those delusions of granduer, you just don't think you'll get caught.

And as to Linden wanting to fix things, I'm the most broken thing there is, next to class balance in the Original EverQuest. Linden can take all the time she wants trying to fix me.

[stormrider]

I was under the impression, from what I read, that giving a Bipolar person an antidepressant or a mood stabaliser isn't so much the problem, as a Doctor proscribing both an antidepressant/mood stabaliser with an antipsychotic (which I was given, due to the whole psychosis aspect that was always attached to my rounds of depression and mania.) This is a problem, as it will actually induce fits of mania.

Yeah, I don't think mood stabilizers are ever (or hardly ever) a problem -- I think they're usually considered the first line of defense for BP. With antidepressants, I think it usually depends on the person: although I don't think it's common for them to induce mania, my aunt's psychiatrist always insisted that she not be given antidepressants unless she was also taking a mood stabilizer. As for the antidepressant/antipsychotic/mood stabilizer thing: I think that combination is used with some frequency. I've never heard of any drug cocktail which included antipsychotics and yet was capable of producing mania. Is that common? I just know antipsychotics have ungodly side effects -- I probably shouldn't go into it, but let me just say that my aunt had a very odd side effect that prompted my (rather insensitive) father to suggest that she apply for a job as a wet nurse (and she definitely wasn't pregnant).

In re: the ecstacy, I was in a perfectly fine mood, as was everyone else at the party.

Yeah, if you were in a good mood, the only explanation is your brain's inability to release the "appropriate" chemicals -- presumably because they aren't there at all. I would assume it's possible for the brain to produce no serotonin, but I've never specifically heard of it happening. It's weird that your doctor didn't know, though.

As the Bipolar Disorder and Kleptomania, personally don't have a large enough statistical sampling, but from anechdotal evidence I would say there does seem to be a correlation between Bipolar and Kleptomania. Or maybe, when you're manic and having those delusions of granduer, you just don't think you'll get caught.

No, no, my aunt wasn't a Kleptomaniac -- she just borrowed tons of crap and never gave it back. It was sort of a hoarding behavior, actually. And yes, I agree that there's a correlation between BP and Kleptomania -- I'm not sure how tenuous (very, probably) the link is, but again, it seems like something that would be intuitive. Irrational, grandiose confidence probably facilitates behaviors like that.

And as to Linden wanting to fix things, I'm the most broken thing there is, next to class balance in the Original EverQuest. Linden can take all the time she wants trying to fix me.

Sorry, I know that's not funny, but I had to laugh at the EverQuest thing. I suppose it's good that we keep mentioning Linden at the bottom of all these posts, because we've knocked this topic wayyy into left field. How the hell have we turned this thread into Psyc 101?

[emotional leper]

Linden Avery, that's how.

Linden is a walking case study in all sorts of behaviours. I'd actually think it would be cool to do a large-ish paper on doing a psychological assessment of Linden.

[stormrider]

Linden Avery, that's how.

Linden is a walking case study in all sorts of behaviours. I'd actually think it would be cool to do a large-ish paper on doing a psychological assessment of Linden.

You should. My last semester of undergrad, we were supposed to do a psychological assessment of any historical or literary figure (living, dead, or nonexistant) and write a paper on it. Well, actually, that was for a graduate level class -- they allow students to take one graduate class their last semester. Unfortunately, the whole thing got screwed up, because the professer decided to add another term paper instead. I think he decided that the former assignment was too "frivolous."

[Rocksister]

I think we need to start a club for people who have NEUTRAL feelings about Linden. We have pro and con already. How 'bout it?

[dlbpharmd]

You'll need a funny acronym.

[stormrider]

I think we need to start a club for people who have NEUTRAL feelings about Linden. We have pro and con already. How 'bout it?

Yeah, but if someone is neutral, do they really care enough to give their allegiance to such an organization? Besides, "neutral" is not really that far from dislike. If someone were to proffer enough evidence against Linden, I'm sure you could be swayed! I'd volunteer to collect all the evidence myself, but considering the amount of lameness Linden sprinkles throughout the Chronicles, the sheer magnitude of the task is somewhat daunting.

[Relayer]

How about
OTFALA -- On the Fence About Linden Avery

Spoiler

What you say is true, but that same neutral person could be just as easily swayed towards loving Linden. For example, it only took our favorite Master about 150 pages (until the horserite). If even he can be swayed, anyone can. There is also love in the world

[stormrider]

What you say is true, but that same neutral person could be just as easily swayed towards loving Linden.

Granted. Theoretically, it could definitely go either way. I firmly believe, however, that the weight of the evidence is on my side. Thus, if a neutral party can be swayed, s/he would naturally be swayed toward the side which can provide the most evidence for its noble cause.

[Avatar]

I'm pretty neutral about her, though anybody who read my dissections might not think so.

That is, I don't dislike her, I just don't trust her not to destroy the Land in her mad insistence that only one thing matters.

--A

[emotional leper]

I'm pretty neutral about her, though anybody who read my dissections might not think so.

That is, I don't dislike her, I just don't trust her not to destroy the Land in her mad insistence that only one thing matters.

--A

So, she's just like TC, then, eh? Except with boobies?

So... she's hated because... she's female?

[aliantha]

So... she's hated because... she's female?

That's what I've been saying all along.

[Relayer]

I'm pretty neutral about her, though anybody who read my dissections might not think so.

That is, I don't dislike her, I just don't trust her not to destroy the Land in her mad insistence that only one thing matters.

I'm just about the inverse. I do like her, but I don't trust her not to destroy the Land... I guess I'm a Ranyhyn and you're a Master

Granted. Theoretically, it could definitely go either way. I firmly believe, however, that the weight of the evidence is on my side. Thus, if a neutral party can be swayed, s/he would naturally be swayed toward the side which can provide the most evidence for its noble cause.

LOL.

[stormrider]

So... she's hated because... she's female?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. See, this is how hating Linden becomes associated with misogyny. I've never really understood why this happens. It's like the weird result of some sort of flawed/inverted syllogism, or something.

People who hate Linden do not hate women. You're forgetting a key point:

Linden Avery is not a woman. She is a succubus.

[wayfriend]

Sunbanespawn!

[emotional leper]

So... she's hated because... she's female?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. See, this is how hating Linden becomes associated with misogyny. I've never really understood why this happens. It's like the weird result of some sort of flawed/inverted syllogism, or something.

People who hate Linden do not hate women. You're forgetting a key point:

Linden Avery is not a woman. She is a succubus.

Hey, now. I'm a misogynist, and I like Linden.