Catholicism reverts (again)

[Lord Mhoram]

He was far more progressive in the interfaith dialogue than Benedict XVI. But no, he didn't go nearly far enough.

[Menolly]

No links, just a conversation or two with my Priest. Now it may well be that he meant that.....how can I put this delicately......that Jews aren't damned or condemned because they don't accept Christ as their Savior, due to their Covenant, and that due to Catholic beliefs (regardless of Jewish beliefs for the sake of discussion), they (Jews) would not be denied entry into Heaven (as a matter of Catholic dogma).

*snort*

Cail, at least with me, you don't need to be 'delicate.' However, if you think others would respond negtively, even if I don't, phrase things as you wish.

I really need to learn more about Judaism, especially since both my brother and cousin have converted.

The site that hosts the Olam Ha-Ba link I posted is the one I turn to the most for information I am unsure about, or to post things for others. I highly recommend it, although it pretty much does come from an Orthodox viewpoint.

[Fist and Faith]

If anyone is aware of a religion that says that all faiths are capable of leading to salvation, and that conversion is therefore completely unnecessary, I would be very interested in seeing that.

As I recently posted, that's the idea behind Unitarian Universalism. Here's a very short page from their site:
www.uua.org/visitors/beliefswithin/index.shtml

And here's some excellent quotes by others:

And lately I have begun to acknowledge that all religious traditions are paths to the same place. There is no *one* that gets you there.

The heritage, the philosophies, the message that came from God through Nature to the Indian people, these are the same as what Jesus Christ means to Christians. God came through Jesus Christ and his disciples to the people just as He came through His agents in Nature to the Indian people. The latter is called paganism... Yet there is no difference. It is the same God. - Allan Wolf Leg

For twelve years, under the guidance of various gurus, he submitted himself to spiritual practices of assorted religious systems, including Christianity and Islam. Each direction led him to illumination, so that he could declare on the basis of personal experience that the followers of all religions alike could realize the ultimate reality if their surrender to God was sufficiently intense. -- Ramakrishna's entry in <U>The Encyclopedia of Eastern Philosophy and Religion</U>

[Cail]

The site that hosts the Olam Ha-Ba link I posted is the one I turn to the most for information I am unsure about, or to post things for others. I highly recommend it, although it pretty much does come from an Orthodox viewpoint.

Cool, I'll dive into it when I get a lull at work.

In re-reading my post, that was some pretty impressive tap-dancing, eh?

[emotional leper]

This is probably going to spin off to another thread, but Krishnas scare me.

[Menolly]

This is probably going to spin off to another thread, but Krishnas scare me.

Oh...I disagree. Beorn's middle school was administered by, and the faculty was entirely comprised of, Kr-shnas. Absolutely fabulous people. If it wasn't such a drive, I would go to their Sunday afternoon lectures and feasts.

Perhaps now that we're not making the drive every weekday to get Beorn to school, we just may go once a month...

[Avatar]

Never trust a vegetarian.

--A

[emotional leper]

Never trust a vegetarian.

--A

All I know is I spent four years living in a College Town of about 100k, and the Krishnas were a cult. C-U-L-T, CULT.

Young Kids, Between the ages of 16 and 20, away from home for the first time, all alone, no friends, looking to belong. And along comes Krishna. It's not pretty. Lonely people will do almost anything to belong.

[Menolly]

I currently live in the same situation you describe. College town of around 100K, with student population, I think. Yes, the HKs actively proselytize, their prashad lunches on the Plaza of the Americas draws the students in like nothing else I have seen. But they do not use the brainwashing techniques of other cults. At least not from what I've seen, and I have been to their local temple and in the private homes of practitioners.

[Cybrweez]

Emotional Leper,

I think it is possible to be a Christian and not pray for the conversion of non-Christians. I think it's possible to be a Christian and be able to see the merits of other faiths. And it's more about political correctness, even though that's a convenient cop-out for debate on issues like this. I think that interfaith dialogue supersedes political correctness.

LM, have you heard of the Great Commission?

Interfaith dialogue? To what purpose?

[Fist and Faith]

Interfaith dialogue? To what purpose?

To learn about each other, with the hope of learning how to live with each other in peace. Perhaps misunderstandings are the cause of some problems, and clearing up those misunderstandings can end the problems. Perhaps simply talking will form friendships - and it might be that many people are less likely to harm a friend than a stranger.

[Cybrweez]

Fist, many have no problem with that. Many do. Of course, the many that do, some have a problem and they have nothing to do w/religion. Again, can't peg religious people as the only ones struggling to understand others.

[Fist and Faith]

can't peg religious people as the only ones struggling to understand others.

I am not doing anything of the sort. I am merely giving what I feel is a very good answer to your question of what purpose there is to interfaith dialogue.

[emotional leper]

I currently live in the same situation you describe. College town of around 100K, with student population, I think. Yes, the HKs actively proselytize, their prashad lunches on the Plaza of the Americas draws the students in like nothing else I have seen. But they do not use the brainwashing techniques of other cults. At least not from what I've seen, and I have been to their local temple and in the private homes of practitioners.

I actually was reffering to Gainesville. Many are the days I would see the Krishnas on the Corner of 13th and Uni, singing, and dances. And way too many times would a Krishna try to talk to me about their religion, or worse still, try to convert me, to which my universal response was something along the lines of, "Sorry, I'm a Zen Buddhist, and once you've spent enough time up to your nostrils in bullshit, you get to recognise the smell real quick. Unfortunately, Krishna's not even bullshit. It's more like stale urine."

[Avatar]

While the Bhagavad Gita and the philosophies it espouses are not for me, (too restrictive), I thinks that's probably a bit harsh a description.

--A

[Fist and Faith]

Well, he is an emotional leper.

[emotional leper]

While the Bhagavad Gita and the philosophies it espouses are not for me, (too restrictive), I thinks that's probably a bit harsh a description.

--A

There are apparently layers of meaning there that both you and the Krishnas are missing.

Calling something 'Bullshit' is not always a bad thing. In fact, sometimes, it's a quite good thing.

[Edit] Also, there is a difference between the Holy Book of a religion, and its adherents. I love the Principia Discordia. However, most Discordians should be dragged into the streets and shot. That's also my personal philosophy about 90% of anarchists, save change the shooting into a vigorous beating.

[Edit of Edit] This where I get that response from. There's a koan which runs something like this in short form: "Zen is the Phenomenon of Gold and Bullshit. Before you understand it, it's like Gold. After you understand it, it's like bullshit."

[[Syl]]

I think Av's in trouble.

[emotional leper]

I think Av's in trouble.

I fear for myself, then.

[Menolly]

I currently live in the same situation you describe. College town of around 100K, with student population, I think. Yes, the HKs actively proselytize, their prashad lunches on the Plaza of the Americas draws the students in like nothing else I have seen. But they do not use the brainwashing techniques of other cults. At least not from what I've seen, and I have been to their local temple and in the private homes of practitioners.

I actually was reffering to Gainesville.

Somehow, I instinctively knew that. Cool! When were you last here?

Many are the days I would see the Krishnas on the Corner of 13th and Uni, singing, and dances. And way too many times would a Krishna try to talk to me about their religion, or worse still, try to convert me, to which my universal response was something along the lines of, "Sorry, I'm a Zen Buddhist, and once you've spent enough time up to your nostrils in bullshit, you get to recognise the smell real quick. Unfortunately, Krishna's not even bullshit. It's more like stale urine."

There are two groups of HKs here around Gator Town. I readily admit the ones near campus who do the lunches and chant on corner of 13th and University are much more aggresive in their proselytizing, as they are comprised mostly of newer, gung-ho acolytes. But they don't do brainwashing techniques like other cult groups that have been in the news over the years.

The group that the administration and staff that ran Beorn's middle school comes from the actual Temple up in Alachua. That group is mostly comprised of long-term devotees and their families. Unless you go to the Temple itself, they rarely proselytize. Alachua is a very small town, and because of the Temple a good portion of the town's population are HK devotees. But, except for the Indian dress many devotees wear, you wouldn't know it. I've run into them in grocery stores with meat in my shopping cart and have conversed with no apparent judgement in their attitude, heck, I've even gone out to eat with members from Beorn's school and after checking with them first, have ordered and consumed fish and/or beef while dining with them.

Those I have gotten to know have pretty much the same attitude as what I said above about Jewish Law versus the Law of the Land. They live in the mundane world. They change what they can and pass through the rest.

And everyone I have come to know is well intentioned with a good heart. I see no difference between their efforts at proselytizing and the more aggressive Chr-stian groups, such as the JW's or LDS when they go out witnessing. Yes, it can be an interruption to my day to be addressed by one of these, but they truly do see themselves as trying to help me, and I see no reason for me to see them as rude, intruding, or simply a wrongness here in Gator Town. At most the conversations last a minute once they understand I have no interest, and when Hyperception gets in the mood to have fun with them, it can actually be ten minutes of intense entertainment with both parties leaving non-convinced of the other's views, but chuckling as they go their separate ways, generally after a hearty and sincere handshake.

I am sad to admit that there are times when the religious school and youth groups at my shul teaches the students to be wary of the HK, but the P'nai Or I am occasionally involved in when my leanings towards Jewitchery must be addressed has had combined events with them. Tolerance here in Gator Town is slowly growing, and we are a fairly liberal city to begin with.