Ongoing thoughts--FR Part 1

Book 2 of the Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

Moderators: dlbpharmd, Seareach

User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23741
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

Holy moley, Seareach!! That's an intense av!!!


I don't think Kevin failed Elena. She had a wacko theory of him having gained extreme strength because of what he went through. Well, he didn't. And he lost. That's not him failing her.

OTOH, Elena was a successor of Kevin's as High Lord and Staff Wielder. And she used those things to get herself into a position of immense possibilities. But, because of her crazy theory, and her unwillingness to listen to the council of beings no less powerful and/or wise as Mhoram, Amok, and Covenant, she brought ruin. That is failing him. As well as everybody else.

However, I don't particularly blame her. I also feel sorry for her. I think she was a bit crazy.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
ur-monkey
<i>Elohim</i>
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:45 pm
Location: The Cretaceous

Post by ur-monkey »

Perhaps Elena failed Kevin by not giving him a more effective Command against the Despiser, to redeem himself...
Quin, suffering from total amnesia, slowly discovers himself possessed of inexplicable abilities as his world expands...

https://www.quinsabduction.org/
User avatar
Seven Words
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Baytown, TX

Post by Seven Words »

My question is, if the Power of Command is so absolute, how could dead Kevin BE mastered at all by Foul? What power could Foul wield that could trump that?
User avatar
ur-monkey
<i>Elohim</i>
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:45 pm
Location: The Cretaceous

Post by ur-monkey »

Elena had Commanded Kevin to engage with and [attempt to] defeat Lord Foul, rather than asking the EarthBlood to do this directly. I've always thought that sending Kevin as the middle-man to do her dirty work diffused the Power of Command. It was spent resurrecting Kevin in order to make battle with the Despiser even possible, and to expect it to also give Kevin the power to actually win would probably have required a second Command...

Well, that's how I make sense of it, anyway. :)
Quin, suffering from total amnesia, slowly discovers himself possessed of inexplicable abilities as his world expands...

https://www.quinsabduction.org/
User avatar
Zarathustra
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19644
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by Zarathustra »

She failed Kevin by not realizing that Kevin couldn't beat Foul. She put him in an impossible position that would force him to fail yet again, magnifying his despair. She basically possessed Kevin, by forcing him to fight a losing battle. What she did to Kevin was horrible. The guy has enough grief on his hands without her perverting earthpower by using it to compel Kevin from beyond the grave to be Foul's puppet-ghost. And she broke the Law of Death. She failed big time. And the ranyhyn warned her.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
User avatar
ur-monkey
<i>Elohim</i>
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:45 pm
Location: The Cretaceous

Post by ur-monkey »

That's true!
Quin, suffering from total amnesia, slowly discovers himself possessed of inexplicable abilities as his world expands...

https://www.quinsabduction.org/
User avatar
dlbpharmd
Lord
Posts: 14460
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:27 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by dlbpharmd »

Seven Words wrote:My question is, if the Power of Command is so absolute, how could dead Kevin BE mastered at all by Foul? What power could Foul wield that could trump that?
The Illearth Stone.
User avatar
Seven Words
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:34 pm
Location: Baytown, TX

Post by Seven Words »

The Illearth Stone was the greatest of the banes Foul caused to be placed into Creation, yes. However, if it's workings could be countered by the Staff of Law, as the attempted healing of dukkha Waynihm shows, then i can't believe it's power can match that of the EarthBlood, when a Command broke the Law of Death.
User avatar
dlbpharmd
Lord
Posts: 14460
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:27 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by dlbpharmd »

Seven Words wrote:The Illearth Stone was the greatest of the banes Foul caused to be placed into Creation, yes. However, if it's workings could be countered by the Staff of Law, as the attempted healing of dukkha Waynihm shows, then i can't believe it's power can match that of the EarthBlood, when a Command broke the Law of Death.
I don't understand your point, because Elena failed to release dukkha from the power of the Stone. Clearly, in terms of sheer power, the IS is surpassed only by wild magic.
User avatar
variol son
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 5777
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 1:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Post by variol son »

Seven Words wrote:The Illearth Stone was the greatest of the banes Foul caused to be placed into Creation, yes. However, if it's workings could be countered by the Staff of Law, as the attempted healing of dukkha Waynihm shows, then i can't believe it's power can match that of the EarthBlood, when a Command broke the Law of Death.
Since the Staff of Law and the Illearth Stone never directly challenged each other, I don't think we can ever know whether one was stronger than the other, especially since the New Lord's comprehension of Earthpower was limited.

As for Kevin, my thinking is that the Power of Command raised him from the grave and compelled him to battle Lord Foul but that it did not further empower him in any way. As if the power of that specific Command was expended breaking the Law of Death and ensuring that Landwaster obeyed Elena's wishes.
You do not hear, and so you cannot be redeemed.

In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.

He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
tonyz
<i>Elohim</i>
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Riverside, CA
Contact:

Post by tonyz »

As far as why Elena had to use an indirect approach, it's because the Power of Command could not be used directly against the Despiser. Amok says as much, directly and specifically.
Choiceless, you were given the power of choice. I elected you for the Land but did not compel you to serve my purpose in the Land... Only thus could I preserve the integrity of my creation.
Post Reply

Return to “Fatal Revenant”