Could Kasreyn of the Gyre be Insequent?

[native]

There seem to be assumptions here that (a) Croyel enslave their hosts. There's no evidence of this in the case of Kasreyn. The other two croyel we've seen have had mindless hosts. And (b) that Insequent are all immortal. Again, that's not necessarily so. And (c) that Kasreyn was his true name.

Myself I can easily see Kasreyn being retconned as an Insequent.

[Relayer]

One thing that's intriguing is that both Kasreyn and the Harrow have the power to compel someone by looking at them. Kasreyn of course needs his ocular, but I did find it to be an interesting similarity... though it doesn't necessarily imply anything.

The Insequent didn't "exist" when 2TCTC was written, but I agree he could easily be retconned.

[ninjaboy]

Yes, all the Insequent seem to be very different.. But I wouldn't be suprised if Kemper was working with the Croyel.. He did seem smart enough to be able to reason wiht one...

I wonder where these Croyel come from.. Or wether the Giants or Haruchai or even Esmer (& his Demondim-spawn) could provide a few stories...

I couldn't think Kemper would be his real name - It's possible the title he has, Kasreyn of the Gyre, may be more to do with his appointment in the City..

Kasreyn of the Gyre: a thaumaturge; the Gaddhi's Kemper..
So he wsa the Kemper (that was his role)..
Here's a wacky notion.. Couldn't 'Kasreyn' be the name of the Croyel and 'the Gyre' be his Insequent name??????

[emotional leper]

It's possible for that to be retconned like that, but Gyre is another word, IIRC, for a spiral or vortex or ascending circle, and he was titled so because that was the shape his works took. (Sandgorgon's Doom, the Sandhold, the Pitch, his Golden loops...)

[ninjaboy]

That is a good point.. Though I don't think it's been disproven.. The main thing is that (from what we know) the Insequent keep to themselves & search for their knowledge in solitude.. Obviously all of the Insequent are different but I would expect them to keep that trait.. And that would rule out a)working with a Croyel, b) running an Empire) and also probably c) the construction of weapons and artefacts..

Stephen Donaldson usually does the unexpected though doesn't he?

[wayfriend]

It's as simple as this: if Donaldson had wanted to include Kasreyn as one of the Insequent, he would not have chosen to name all of the other Insequent in such a way as to have Kasreyn not fit the pattern.

[ninjaboy]

Hence my original point - that his name IS 'the Gyre' - and Kasreyn was the name of the Croyel..

And if he chose his own name, considering that he likes creating those structures and arefacts, it seems likely that he would have named himself that..

[Thorhammerhand]

I say that his deliberate and multiple use and creation of circles in his theogy stand as proof (not definitive, but proof), of the potential of his nature.