Longwrath's anger

[Manny Calavera]

There was mention in the book about Joan slipping her bonds on Haven Farm,and Longwraths ability to do the same. I wonder how many other
connections there are between the two of them ?

[Usivius]

<sung to the tune of 'Batman') Bananananananana Nanananananana Raver!

[Beyondthebreach]

Some futher thoughts regarding Longwrath's anger . . .

I've read different thoughts on who "her" might be (Linden or Joan) . . . however, I can't stop thinking about one important detail: Longwrath's "obsession" started at least a year ago (maybe more as Donaldson is vague on the passage of time during the giants' telling of the tale). I haven't totalled up the days that Linden has been in the Land . . . but it has to be much less than a year . . . right?

So, if Linden were the target of his anger all along, then she (and also Joan) weren't even in the Land when he became "possessed". If either are his targets, then his madness would have anticipated their arrival . . .

Also, his madness seems to have taken two phases. The second is when he decided to get the flamberge from the armory in Bhrathair and then to set his sight on The Land as a destination. Why all of a sudden after a host of Sandgorgons departed into the sea? Why did the Sandgorgons depart for that matter?

Again, it is hard to tell for certain, but this timescale would seem to be close to when Linden arrives in The Land. Did his purpose get altered/affected after their arrival?

Further (as has already been mentioned), there seems to be some definite connection between Longwrath and Joan - from their facial injuries to their ability to slip manacles. Possibly it is Joan who is possessing Longwrath -Joan who links to his old injury through her own persistent beating - Joan's essence which the Wraiths forbid to enter Andelain? Remember also that Joan beat herself incessantly and was then "calmed" by White Gold. This could also be a link to Longwrath's period of recovery versus his submission to madness (after the White Gold was given to her).

This would also make Longwrath a much more worthy target of the Ur-viles lore in making manacles.

[ninjaboy]

There could definately be a lot more to it.. Reading the last post made me wonder if any of Linden's actions in the Land since her arrival may have somehow *caused* Longwrath to get that sword... Maybe it was when she got the Staff of Law...

The Sandgorgons went to the Land because it was the only other place they knew of and obviously they were encouraged by the rent raver... But why did they choose to go at that point? Perhaps they are similar to the Ranyhyn in that they know when they are about to be summoned and leave earlier..

[ninjaboy]

Oh - and again with the manacles for Longwrath?? No way! Why would they bother binding someone for eternity (or whatever the manacles do - though i suspect it's that sort of thing) when they are mere mortals and can be killed or will eventually die anyway - when you could bind something (ravers, LF) who seem to be immortal and the future of the Land would be greatly aided if they were somehow made incapable of moving for the rest of eternity... It'd be a waste, surely....

[wayfriend]

Why would they bother binding someone for eternity when they are mere mortals and can be killed or will eventually die anyway

Well... what if the mortal can perform an act that would change things forever?

[Beyondthebreach]

Well . . . my thought on Longwrath and the manacles is that we will see him become a "companion" of Linden/Covenant. I don't see him as going away anytime soon and he's not going to be killed . . . so . . . in the great tradition of Donaldson, I see him being brought along. You know, each chapter there will be several vacant stares from Longwrath, punctuated by periodic statements of Slay Her. Slay . . . Her!

Linden will stare meaningfully at him and ponder how her discernment reveals nothing (but probably not ask any further questions about his madness )


Where was I? Oh yeah . . . well, if he serves some vital purpose (like being a link to Joan or something) and he has to accompany Linden, then he will need manacles to restrain him - manacles that he can not slip out of.





Slay Her! Are you fools?

[Unfettered One]

OK

Linden DEFINATELY neesd some instrument to get croyels of people's backs.. And if that sword can't do it then Braithiir is probably a good place to find something that can.. THough someone mentioned that now will the Krill, as well as the Staff and White Gold, she could use the Power of Command again, and order the Croyel off..

I seem to recall something from the 1st chronicles that the Power of Command could only be used by any mortal once.

[Beyondthebreach]

I keep thinking about this Longwrath thing . . . I guess because it kind of seems like a little mystery and it makes my brain puzzle over it.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that Donaldson has already given several vital clues that I have so far missed.

So . . . I've been puzzling . . .

I can't see that Longwrath's madness has many forms - that is, he wants one specific thing. If that is the case, then what is the deal with the sword? I mean, why does he need a sword designed to slay Sandgorgons if his "madness" leads him to kill Linden? He even goes out of his way to retrieve the weapon.

This makes me think that Linden is the "Red Herring". Donaldson has been sufficiently vague with the words Longwrath says: Kill Her and Are you Fools? . Of course, Longwrath's appearance in the story seem to indicate that Linden is his target, but that is the art of a mystery storyline, right? Make the reader buy into the obvious and overlook the subtle.

And Longwrath keeps saying "Are you Fools?". Fools often overlook something that is right before them. Are, we the reader, also being fooled?

Here is my logic:

- Longwrath has a sword with the power to slay Sandgorgons . . . ouch! That must have some serious arcane power.

- If the "Sword" is the important thing, then Longwrath is just the tool - however, as this Sword was designed for Giants, it necessitates a Giant to use it.

- He obviously is looking for a "her".

- Linden is his apparent target.

- Longwrath doesn't need a "special" sword to kill Linden. He could smack her with a rock and she'd die just as easily. So, Linden must not be his target.

- There is only one other female of signficance in Salva Gilenbourne/Andelain and that is Infelice.

- An Elohim has been in "The Land' for some time leaving cryptic messages and other sundy things.

- The Elohim know what is going on, however, are they omniscient? To some extent, I think they may need to be near and observe things. They aren't the creator after all.

- Has Infelice been following and/or "with" Linden for sometime now to keep track of her? She was obviously "waiting" for her in Andelain so she knew what was going on?

- What would happen if you struck an Elohim with a sword powerful enough to slain a Sandgorgon? I bet it might actually hurt them!


As long as I'm out on a limb here, how about some other musings:

- I can't believe the Vizard won't have some other role to play.

- The Vizard hated Elohim

- The Vizard went mad and would eventually "die" for interfering with The Harrow.

- How long does it take for an Insequent to actually "die" - this is not made clear.

- Longwrath appears mad.

[wayfriend]

But how do you reconcile the fact that Longwrath took a swing at Linden, if he's really not after Linden?

[Beyondthebreach]

But how do you reconcile the fact that Longwrath took a swing at Linden, if he's really not after Linden?

Of course, I'm just taking stabs in the dark here, but I'm guessing that Longwrath is really after Infelice. She is an Elohim after all - she could be anyway - that includes insubstantial, invisible, existing as "fluid power", etc. She could be, somehow, "with" Linden.

Remember, Roger and the Croyel were sure that the Elohim would prevent them from drinking the Earthblood if they didn't have Linden there - this was right up until the last moment, so it conceivable that an Elohim's presence was there the whole time - if so, where were they?

In a similar vein, I think Linden has been closely spied on and observed by an Elohim (Infelice in this case) the entire time she has been in The Land.

[wayfriend]

I would suggest a simpler answer.

We know that Covenant wins in the end. And that victory requires the End of the World.

I suggest that the World correctly has seen Linden's hand in it's End, and has imparted a true Earthsight vision of it to Longwrath. For The Earth knows only that it is in peril, but not the necessity for that peril.

Or, alternately, that the Earth has recognized the needs that require it's End, and the Earthsight was granted to Longwrath because Linden will oppose that End by trying to save the Earth.

See this. It's all about knowing when to fight and when to let go.

Edit: Another idea just struck me. The Laws of Life and Death have been broken. It may be that Longwrath desires Linden to be Dead, not to stop her, but to help her.

[Beyondthebreach]

See, that all sounds good to me except for the issue of the Sword. This "special" Sword has a specific purpose. I can't imagine that Donaldson won't utilize it's abilities at some point (i.e. to slay Sandgorgons or something else). But, Longwrath, doesn't need the Sword to slay Linden. So why does he need it?

It would be very contrived of Donaldson to go through this trouble to get the Sword to the Land and use it if it wasn't essential to fulfill Longwrath's insanity.

It would be like: "Oh, he just wanted to kill Linden and that was all - but now we could sure use a Sword to slay Sandgorgons to save our lives . . . Oh yes! Luckily Longwrath brought one along . . . why don't we just use that?"

No, I think that there is an essential reason the Sword is there and it is needed to fulfill Longwrath's purpose. So, his victim must be immune to "normal" weapons - and that is not Linden (or Joan for that matter).

[ninjaboy]

Lots of good questions..
Though I gathered fro the text that Longwrath's anger is very different to 'Earthsight'.. I do like the idea that Longwrath it attempting to kill Infelice (It'd be something SD WOULD do - have us all convinced he's after her when that's really not it)..

I still believe the Manacles will end up not being for Longwrath.. If they were, surely the Ur-Viles would have appeared with them earlier when Longwrath was threatening LA or close to her.. If they were designed to stop Longwrath from being able to kill Linden surely they WOULD actually be doing that NOW...

The other thing about Longwrath tagging along with LA and Covenant is that whenever we were'nt reading what was actually happenning it would be just be "Slay her... Are You Fools... What have you Done" and "Foul has my Son" running around in LA's head...

The only thing that can kill Linden in the Land would be something that would cause a bullet-like wound in her chest, surely.. And I don't think Longwrath's sword could do that.

[Seppi2112]

There's also the cut on her right hand that has to appear as well... maybe a sword cut?

[ninjaboy]

Yeah - I'd forgot about that!

Kudos to you, Seppi!