What were they thinking? The character's perspective
Moderators: kevinswatch, Orlion
-
I'm Murrin
- Are you?
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
- Location: North East, UK
- Contact:
Maybe Linden's calling him Covenant started out as a piece of professional reserve (when she first encounters him, she's there on Hippocratic business even if unofficially, and it would have been rude to use his first name) and by the time they were on different terms than doctor and potential patient (or patient's caregiver, if Joan was the patient), it was already hard-wired.
And no one in the Land calls him just Thomas. If English had a deferential pronoun, they'd have been using it. (BTW, I wonder how many different levels of honorific/deferential/familiar/intimate pronouns the Haruchai language has?)
And no one in the Land calls him just Thomas. If English had a deferential pronoun, they'd have been using it. (BTW, I wonder how many different levels of honorific/deferential/familiar/intimate pronouns the Haruchai language has?)
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
--Spider Robinson
--Spider Robinson
-
aTOMiC
- Lord
- Posts: 24594
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:48 am
- Location: Tampa, Florida
- Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 7 times
- Contact:
His mother never once refered to him as "Mulder" thats true. Old family freinds who knew him as a child probably wouldn't call him mulder. Outside of that there few occurances where someone other than a mother, sister, brother or spiritual leader would refer to these particular characters by their first names. I'm not saying never, I'm saying rarely. Covenant never encounters his mother or father. No sisters. No priests. No first grade teachers. His publisher might call him Tom but we're never treated to that. Only Joan. I've been called "Cummins" a few times. The track coach in high school. dAN has done it. But there isn't any going back now. Linden and just about everyone else is using Covenant and the character seem pretty comfortable with that.Murrin wrote:Mulder gets called Fox all the time...
"If you can't tell the difference, what difference does it make?"
"There is tic and toc in atomic" - Neil Peart
The Bloodguard
I could read a whole series of stories written from the perspective of the Haruchai concerning their introduction to the Old Lords, their Despair at Kevin's Desicration, and The Corruption of the Vow. In addition, I would love to read about Bannor's decision to join the Ramen, and Cail's passion when TC releases him in WGW.
We suffice.
We suffice.
-
Fist and Faith
- Magister Vitae
- Posts: 23741
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 34 times
Cail, kinsman! Long time no see! 
Revelstone is quite the place now there's no more Sunbane.
Is it really true that there's a double rainbow day and night where the merewives' line of squalls used to be, or were the last shipload of Giant visitors pulling my...sash?
Revelstone is quite the place now there's no more Sunbane.
Is it really true that there's a double rainbow day and night where the merewives' line of squalls used to be, or were the last shipload of Giant visitors pulling my...sash?
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
--Spider Robinson
--Spider Robinson
Wow, can those Merwives show a guy a good time... 
Though many will disagree with me, I think the Bloodguard/Haruchai are the most interesting, conflicted, and tragic characters in the books. I would love to have whole chapters dedicated to Bannor's horror at Korik's return to Revelstone, and a look into Cail's mind throuout WGW.
Though many will disagree with me, I think the Bloodguard/Haruchai are the most interesting, conflicted, and tragic characters in the books. I would love to have whole chapters dedicated to Bannor's horror at Korik's return to Revelstone, and a look into Cail's mind throuout WGW.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
-
Fist and Faith
- Magister Vitae
- Posts: 23741
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 34 times
I'm definitely with you on this! Quite unlike most races from any books. Some may be similar in some ways, but there's nothing like the Haruchai!!!Cail wrote:Though many will disagree with me, I think the Bloodguard/Haruchai are the most interesting, conflicted, and tragic characters in the books.
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH yeah!!!!! That would be amazing!!!Cail wrote:I would love to have whole chapters dedicated to Bannor's horror at Korik's return to Revelstone
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
**Climbs a big tree, hides in Revelwood**)That's right, Danlo, we're preparing to Vow loyalty (and eternal gratitude) to YOU! 
Run for the lowlands!
Fist wrote:
If a close-range narrative of that were published, its purchase price would include a full cord of firewood for pyrotherapeutic purposes.
Run for the lowlands!
Fist wrote:
Kinsmen, are you both made of asbestos?Cail wrote:OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH yeah!!!!! That would be amazing!!!I would love to have whole chapters dedicated to Bannor's horror at Korik's return to Revelstone
If a close-range narrative of that were published, its purchase price would include a full cord of firewood for pyrotherapeutic purposes.
Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.
--Spider Robinson
--Spider Robinson
-
Guest
But that's exactly my point. Again, in my not so humble opinion, the whole series is about pain and loss. And no one has endured more of either than the haruchai. For such a passioate people to live through the corruption of the Vow, which started with Kevin, and ended with the abomination of the Sunbane....My God, this story needs to be told. Think of Bannor, who served with fealty for thousands of years, but at the end of the Vow chose to be with the Ranyhyn, yet still bore the heels of the Staff to Revelstone. Think of Korik, who after his charges had passed, still completed his mission, and pursued the deepest hope of the Bloodguard "to fight Corruption at his home" and failed miserably. Think of Cail and the shame of being found unworthy by his kinsmen.
In a very real way the Haruchai are the unbelievers: they don't use Earthpower, they are a strong-willed, war-like race, but they feel a need to bond themselves to others. They're dependant on a "greater good" to give their lives meaning.
This is why (to me) they are so magnetic. At the time of LFB the Vow is already completely Corrupt. Yet they follow out of loyalty and trust. Bannor in TPTP has every reason to despise TC, yet he doesn't because of his former Vow, and because of the hope that TC can redeem the Land.
This is what absolutely fascinates me about the haruchai/Bloodguard (and also why I have identified with them for the last 25 years). They are so pure in service that they cannot see their own faults (corruption). The simple fact that Brinn reaches out to TC in Revelstone in TWL, and that the story has been preserved for THREE AND A HALF MILLENNIA is utterly amazing. What makes it moreso is that that story more than likely came from Bannor, who was privy to all of TC's shortcomings. Yet he still believed that TC could be both the savior of the Land, and the Redeemer of his people.
In a very real way the Haruchai are the unbelievers: they don't use Earthpower, they are a strong-willed, war-like race, but they feel a need to bond themselves to others. They're dependant on a "greater good" to give their lives meaning.
This is why (to me) they are so magnetic. At the time of LFB the Vow is already completely Corrupt. Yet they follow out of loyalty and trust. Bannor in TPTP has every reason to despise TC, yet he doesn't because of his former Vow, and because of the hope that TC can redeem the Land.
This is what absolutely fascinates me about the haruchai/Bloodguard (and also why I have identified with them for the last 25 years). They are so pure in service that they cannot see their own faults (corruption). The simple fact that Brinn reaches out to TC in Revelstone in TWL, and that the story has been preserved for THREE AND A HALF MILLENNIA is utterly amazing. What makes it moreso is that that story more than likely came from Bannor, who was privy to all of TC's shortcomings. Yet he still believed that TC could be both the savior of the Land, and the Redeemer of his people.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
-
Mystikan
- Woodhelvennin
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:56 pm
- Location: South Australia
- Contact:
I'd like to know what went through Lena's head after TC left Mithil Stonedown, after he raped her. We are given some idea when she confessed to Triock, and the value of her gift in hiding to allow TC to escape unpunished (WHAT a sacrifice! That part brought tears to my eyes!) but after that we don't meet her again until she's an old woman, and completely bonkers. I'd have liked to know how she felt when she discovered she was pregnant with Elena, and the terrible conflict in her mind, that eventually drove her mad - from her own POV. I would have liked to have followed that process - it would have made for some heart-rending reading!
"Something her people thought of as a gift had been torn from her." - Lord Foul's Bane, Chapter 7.
"'Lena my mother remains in Mithil Stonedown, for she insists that you will return to her.'" - The Illearth War, Chapter 6.
"'I could blind you.'" - The Power That Preserves, Chapter 10.
I might point out that Lena is my favourite character from the Land. She is the most selfless, bravehearted girl I can imagine!
"Something her people thought of as a gift had been torn from her." - Lord Foul's Bane, Chapter 7.
"'Lena my mother remains in Mithil Stonedown, for she insists that you will return to her.'" - The Illearth War, Chapter 6.
"'I could blind you.'" - The Power That Preserves, Chapter 10.
I might point out that Lena is my favourite character from the Land. She is the most selfless, bravehearted girl I can imagine!
The only difference between light and dark is the ability to tell the difference.
-
aTOMiC
- Lord
- Posts: 24594
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:48 am
- Location: Tampa, Florida
- Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 7 times
- Contact:
UrLord wrote:Kevin, always Kevin...I'd pretty much be interested in his entire story, really, as told from his point of view. My own imaginings of his life have grown more and more elaborate of late, and the more I think about it, the more interesting I think his story would be. You know, so many people here seem to be hesitant about a TC movie that covers the main storyline, but what about Kevin's story in movie form? I think that could be done fairly well...hmmm...
Reading events from Kevin's point of view would indeed be fascinating. Both before and (thanks to nature of the dead in the Land) after the Ritual of Desecration.
The High Lord stood upon his Watch above the Land he loved and considered it's fate in the face of such overwhelming might as the Despiser had assembled against him.
We are so screwed!
"If you can't tell the difference, what difference does it make?"
"There is tic and toc in atomic" - Neil Peart
aTOMiC wrote:I happen to agree with you, CJ. My little attempt at writing from Foul's perspective is an example of your point. I'm curious what is going on in his mind, but like you I don't think it can be properly articulated in a narrative. Unless of course SRD decided to do that in the Last Chrons in which case I have to say that if anyone can do it justice he can.
Well now...dont be so hasty, from what i read you sounded like you were doing a decent job of it,......the hard part of writing what an almost godlike characters thoughts are would mean having to set aside Human or Mortal Concerns and feelings....Foul and the Creator would be almost impossible though SRD did as good a job as anyone could i guess.
im sure i wouldnt be the only one to read your offshoot if you finished it.
I would like to hear the full tale of the Haruchai also. but what i want most to see or read is about the homeland of Giants.
Although I would like to know more about the Elohim, I believe getting a perspective from someone like Findail would just make my head hurt. Throughout the storyline they just get more and more cryptic, as if I need to take what they're saying through an Elohim-->English translator. I don't know if this is SRD's intention to make them cryptic, or maybe just because he hasn't thought out their plight all the way through like he has other characters like the Haruchai or Ramen. Maybe he'll elaborate more in the coming books through Infelice.CovenantJr wrote:Nom
But seriously, Findail's take on things might be intriguing. I'm not sure about a Foul's-eye-view though... I think it would detract from him. Foul has always genuinely chilled me, and I think seeing things from his perspective would negate the sense of his pervasiveness. Not to mention, I doubt he sees things the way we do - it possibly couldn't be written in a way we'd understand.
Good question, Tom C
"We are both the answers and the questions." WTF?