Kevin's Watch Religious Composition (Dec. '08)

[variol son]

1: Strong theist. 100% possibility of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know"
2: Very high probability 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God '
3: Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism.
4: Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic.
5: Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism.
6: Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist.
7: Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.

I voted atheist, but on this scale I'd be about 5.5.

[Vraith]

I wanted to put a link here, but I didn't save it, and I forgot how I ended up finding it, but there was a page (with images) showing things you can tell from a brain scan. There were a lot of them, but the ones I recall are:
If you grew up bi- or multi-lingual (before age 7 or so, I think) it shows up.
If you practiced a musical instrument 30 min. a day starting before age 10 or so, it shows up.
If you actually believe in some kind of god or higher power (whether you SAY you do or don't is irrelevant)
it shows up...there are some strange implications/possibilities, I think, when faith shows up in physical brain structure.
J----------

[Cybrweez]

If you actually believe in some kind of god or higher power (whether you SAY you do or don't is irrelevant)
it shows up

I don't get it. You mean I believe in a god or higher power b/c the scan tells me so, despite what I say I believe?

[rdhopeca]

If you actually believe in some kind of god or higher power (whether you SAY you do or don't is irrelevant)
it shows up

I don't get it. You mean I believe in a god or higher power b/c the scan tells me so, despite what I say I believe?

Yeah, how did they go about confirming this?

[[Syl]]

This Time article perhaps?

And I'm a 6.

[Vraith]

If you actually believe in some kind of god or higher power (whether you SAY you do or don't is irrelevant)
it shows up

I don't get it. You mean I believe in a god or higher power b/c the scan tells me so, despite what I say I believe?

Yeah, how did they go about confirming this?

I don't trust my memory completely, but the whole process involved comparing results from several kinds of tests...the scan images, EEG's (?)
and basically a "lie-detector" apparatus.
The basic point of the whole thing was that they already knew that physical things (like playing instruments, or gymnastics) and mental tasks (like language learning) caused changes in brain structure, especially if begun early, so they were trying to see if other kinds of things were identifiable as well...besides faith, morality/ethics was part of it, and some social things (lots of stuff related to various -isms, I recall)
Their sample was smallish, but I remember thinking their methods were good.
J--------

[Avatar]

The thing is, if these changes to the brain structure occur in the formative years, and the child was originally raised as a believer, those structures may have been formed before they decided that there was no god, for example.

--A

[Auleliel]

On a scale from 1 to 7:

1: Strong theist. 100% possibility of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know"
2: Very high probability 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God '
3: Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism.
4: Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic.
5: Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism.
6: Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist.
7: Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.

I'm at about a 1.2. I believe pretty strongly in God, and am mostly Christian (raised RC). I have a lot of doubts (which I am currently exploring and working through), but none of them are about God's existence. I've had enough experiences to be pretty convinced that there is a Supreme Creator Being. But I am not a creationist (nor an evolutionist, for that matter), and I don't believe the Bible is literally true in every word (although I maintain it is spiritually true). If I find out when I die that there is no God, then I will be extremely surprised, but I do not entirely discount the possibility that this could occur, however unlikely.

My goodness this is a long post that doesn't really say much. Sorry about that.

[Vraith]

The thing is, if these changes to the brain structure occur in the formative years, and the child was originally raised as a believer, those structures may have been formed before they decided that there was no god, for example.

--A

Good point, and one I didn't think of initially, and should have. Related: if this only happens in the formative years, what about people without religious background who later believe?
Still...the results point in some interesting directions (especially since, after years of biology/medicine saying the brain doesn't grow new neurons they have now found that they do.

[Avatar]

Well, it would certainly be interesting to scan those "converts" and see if they possess similar structures. A "before and after" would be even more interesting.

I'd be even more interested to know how many people raised with no religious background do actually convert.

--A