Out of Body Experience

[Dromond]

This interests me greatly.

I've had a few in my lifetime... (maybe half a dozen nearly, and one completely,) they all took place 30 some years ago, as a youngster. (Twelve to fourteen, I'd say.)

The first time I thought I was dying... I was drifting into sleep and suddenly my whole body was numb! I was terrified! I remember thinking if I could only wiggle a finger or toe I could break this sense of paralysis and death would spare me!

When the sense of movement was real,(and a struggle it was) and my toe (or finger) was moving, I would feel the numbness recede,and suddenly wake up. Happy to be alive, though sweaty and horrified by the experience.

The feeling I was dying was real. I don't know how to say it other wise. I was afraid and didn't want to go.

It always took me by surprise, just as I was losing consciousness, and I fought the paralysis as if my life depended on it. Weird.

Well, one time, the paralysis took me faster than I could combat, and the experience took me away, and out of my body.

I slid down the length of my body, and away, sliding out of myself in a way that I never thought possible, and only years later heard described. (Casteneda and the Nagual)

I flew at a level about five feet from the floor. Feet first, I flew.Maybe floated is a better descripion. Maybe. In a circle. Through my (closed) bedroom door, into the bathroom, through the walls, then my Sisters room, (she was laying there sleeping) through the wall seperating us, and then slid down into my body, waking up a with my feet hanging off the foot of the bed. I woke amazed. And no longer afraid of the experience.

I sometimes wonder why the *total* experience I had was the last one.

There was one more about ten years later, I didn't fight it, but it fizzled, wasn't a total one.

I do believe it was natural, but that's just me.

I would like to hear any other experiences from the Watchers here, and certainly what you attribute this to, religious, or otherwise.

[rusmeister]

This interests me greatly.

I've had a few in my lifetime... (maybe half a dozen nearly, and one completely,) they all took place 30 some years ago, as a youngster. (Twelve to fourteen, I'd say.)

The first time I thought I was dying... I was drifting into sleep and suddenly my whole body was numb! I was terrified! I remember thinking if I could only wiggle a finger or toe I could break this sense of paralysis and death would spare me!

When the sense of movement was real,(and a struggle it was) and my toe (or finger) was moving, I would feel the numbness recede,and suddenly wake up. Happy to be alive, though sweaty and horrified by the experience.

The feeling I was dying was real. I don't know how to say it other wise. I was afraid and didn't want to go.

It always took me by surprise, just as I was losing consciousness, and I fought the paralysis as if my life depended on it. Weird.

Well, one time, the paralysis took me faster than I could combat, and the experience took me away, and out of my body.

I slid down the length of my body, and away, sliding out of myself in a way that I never thought possible, and only years later heard described. (Casteneda and the Nagual)

I flew at a level about five feet from the floor. Feet first, I flew.Maybe floated is a better descripion. Maybe. In a circle. Through my (closed) bedroom door, into the bathroom, through the walls, then my Sisters room, (she was laying there sleeping) through the wall seperating us, and then slid down into my body, waking up a with my feet hanging off the foot of the bed. I woke amazed. And no longer afraid of the experience.

I sometimes wonder why the *total* experience I had was the last one.

There was one more about ten years later, I didn't fight it, but it fizzled, wasn't a total one.

I do believe it was natural, but that's just me.

I would like to hear any other experiences from the Watchers here, and certainly what you attribute this to, religious, or otherwise.

I would say that Orthodox Christianity does not deny (write off) such experiences - but they are usually near-death, and could be "prelest" (deceptions of demons) - especially for people far from faith.

[Furls Fire]

Dromond

My brother Stephen had these experiences constantly. He used to say, "The Lord takes me places in my dreams, and also during the moments when I am the most awake. I free float between the boundaries of this life and the next. But, there are times when it is not the Lord, and I am pulled away by those who strive to take from Him what He holds most dear. It is those journeys that sicken me." He describes some of these in his journal entries.

I believe our souls, or spirits if you will, seperate from us at times. I know to some that may sound like the most ridiculous thing they ever heard, but that is what I believe. Our physical bodies host the soul while we are here. Why the soul does this? I don't know. Such things are beyond my understanding. But, I do know that it happens, it happened to Stephen, it happens to me and it happens to some of my children (my 5 year old son Stevie speaks of "running while he's standing still"). At times, I find it terrifying and other times, I find it glorious...it all depends on where I go. Mostly, it brings me such a profound sense of peace and affirms my belief that after my time in this life is done, I'll move on to the next and begin that journey.

[[Syl]]

It's a fairly common occurrence after sleep paralysis, which is exactly what you describe. I've never experienced either sleep paralysis or an out of body experience, though I do occasionally get hypnagogic noise, like a giant roar or amplifier feedback inside my head (scared the crap out of me the first time, but it's almost pleasant once you get used to it), while falling asleep. Strangely, this seems to happen most commonly when I'm falling asleep after sex.

I've read of others using sleep paralysis to enter a lucid dreaming state. My wife sent me an email once while I was out at sea, telling me how freaked out she was after this had happened. I recognized what she was telling me as sleep paralysis and told her about the lucid dreaming thing. It worked for her the next time she experienced it. I've also read quite a few articles linking it to alien abduction and even accounts of being visited by a succubus/incubus.

[Avatar]

Never had one...seem to be anchored fairly firmly.

--A

[Vader]

I also had these quite often - paralysis, "floating out of my body", voices in my head, even complete songs - but I never associated it with anything supernatural. I was always sure (and still am) that it is a neuronal thing - like certain parts of the brain "falling asleep" a tad too early thus leaving senses without control.

[Zarathustra]

It's a fairly common occurrence after sleep paralysis, which is exactly what you describe. I've never experienced either sleep paralysis or an out of body experience, though I do occasionally get hypnagogic noise, like a giant roar or amplifier feedback inside my head (scared the crap out of me the first time, but it's almost pleasant once you get used to it), while falling asleep. Strangely, this seems to happen most commonly when I'm falling asleep after sex.

I've read of others using sleep paralysis to enter a lucid dreaming state. My wife sent me an email once while I was out at sea, telling me how freaked out she was after this had happened. I recognized what she was telling me as sleep paralysis and told her about the lucid dreaming thing. It worked for her the next time she experienced it. I've also read quite a few articles linking it to alien abduction and even accounts of being visited by a succubus/incubus.

You are exactly right. It comes from being the evolutionary descendants of creatures who fell asleep in trees, and then developed the consciousness to think about it. Sleep paralysis was useful when we needed to stay still up in trees while we slept. It can still be useful . . . depending on how high your bed is.

Sleep paralysis can be pretty freaky. If you think that's weird, you should try psychedelics!

I have experienced sleep paralysis (thought demons were climbing into bed with me, until I understood what was happening), lucid dreaming (rocks! better than any drug), and psychedelics. They are all very powerful altered states of consciousness.

It amazes me how much we downplay sleep and dreams. If you closed your eyes during a business meeting and were suddenly experiencing another world--Covenant style--you'd think you were insane. But each night we do this, and don't think it's weird at all. Completely 3-d hallucinations happen to us all on a nightly basis, but we don't even remember most of them.

It's not a coincidence that you experience these states while going to sleep. The hypnagogic state is freaky.

[Fist and Faith]

Never had one...seem to be anchored fairly firmly.

How very surprising that I'm in the same boat.


But Tracie, if you find yourself in my neck of the woods...

[aliantha]

I just read about this tonight! David Hufford, a physician and folklorist, calls the sorts of experiences you guys are describing "core experiences". Hufford says that the phenomena are experienced across many cultures, and that most cultures give them a spiritual explanation.

This is from the book that I'm reading for my Pagan study group, which I quoted from in the "Paganism v. Christianity" thread (or whatever the heck I called it ). The author, Sabina Magliocco, talks about how the Reformation and the Enlightenment brought about a sea change in the way Western civilization thinks of such experiences, to the point that today, the rational/medical establishment defines them as pathological -- which is to say, insane. However, she goes on to say:

(T)he physical basis of some spiritual experiences is not meant to be a denial of the existence of a spiritual dimension to reality. All human perceptions of material reality can ultimately be documented as chemical reactions in our neurobiology; all our sensations, thoughts, and memories are ultimately reducible to chemistry, yet we feel no need to deny the existence of the material world; it is no less real because our perceptions of it are biologically based. (citation omitted) Therefore, until further evidence is available, it is not rational to assume that the spiritual reality of core experiences is any less real than the more scientifically documentable material reality.

[The Laughing Man]

that's a great quote ali.

I have had several OOBX's throughout the course of my life. plus 3 more (that I'm aware of) that I have no memory of at all.

[Zarathustra]

I agree that's a great quote, Ali.

I don't believe in a spirit, a "ghost in the machine." However, I think that mind is a holistic, emergent property of matter that transcends its individual parts. Like the cliche goes, this whole is greater than the . . . yada yada. Matter achieves a "higher" state in consciousness. I think that mind taps into levels of physics that aren't "Newtonian." That's why materialism and physical reductionism misses a large part of the picture. I think matter is (or can be) a lot more "spiritual" than the way most of us have thought about it since Newton. Just look at quantum mechanics.

I don't think we're simply organic computers. Consciousness is more than an algorithm.

[aliantha]

Thanks, guys. The quote really struck me when I read it, and then I came in here and found y'all discussing it. It was like kismet!

I don't think that I've had any experience of astral projection, but I have definitely had the temporary sleep paralysis thing happen to me. And guided meditations, voices in my head, etc. -- yup, all of those, more than once.

[Furls Fire]

Glad I'm not the only one around here that has voices in her head.

I hear my name called all the time. I usually respond with "I'm listening". Alot of times, tho, I don't get a response back after that. Yet, I do occasionally and it is those times when I find myself a bit detached from my physical body.

Ah, Eric...I go where I'm taken...maybe one day I'll be taken in your direction. But, I'd rather meet up with you and my other friends here in the "conventional" way.

[Vraith]

Did you know that the OOBE can be induced with the centrifuge-machine they use in training astronauts (and pilots I think, too)? Not that this proves there's no purpose/meaning/joy in them necessarily, just that our brains are involved in every sensation.
I've never had an OOBE, but I lucid dream fairly regularly. Supposedly, this is a learnable skill.

[The Laughing Man]

we should definitely split this thread between discussion of sleep paralysis and actual OOBX.

[lucimay]

i seen esmer on one of his trips!


PS. i also lucid dream frequently.
i also hear them voices and they always holler my name. i heard one
loud and clear last night holler cyndi! but i didn't know the voice.
i listen to all that stuff nightly. i always think to myself "i hope i don't hear no serial killers ner nuthin."

(you think i'm being ridiculous but i really DO think that)

[Zarathustra]

Esmer, there are lots of different experiences people label "OOBE." Sleep paralysis is one. Which kind are you talking about?

I do not believe OOBEs are real. In other words, I don't think it is possible to leave your body. I'm willing to be proved wrong, but the evidence would have to be extremely definitive, like being able to come back from the experience and report things outside your body that would have been impossible for you to know otherwise, and for this report to be verifiable by others. I'm not trying to be unfair or unduly skeptical, but I think that the burden of proof for something so controversial should be fairly high.

Regardless, I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences. What sets them apart from sleep paralysis, lucid dreaming, etc.?

[The Laughing Man]

first of all, nobody has mentioned anything about something very peculiar in my first post.

second of all, I have no idea what c2 is talking about.

third of all, you are absolutely correct Malik, it does take that kind of verification you are speaking of to "prove" it. and by OOBX I mean just that, perceiving yourself outside of your body in the same world you perceive inside of your body, for now. Maybe later we can talk about other worlds and other kinds of OOBX and perceptual experiences, which are all subject to the kind of scrutiny you require and certainly require your participation in order to validate them. As you may have noticed, I have always been very reluctant to talk about the details of my experiences, some of them because they involve other people who may or may not be present who may or may not wish the subject to be discussed with or without them, or at all. As for my strictly personal experiences, I just feel that my assertion of my opinion on any subject should suffice, that I don't need to brace my points with anecdotal evidence. I'm here more or less just to support Dromond and others in their experiences. Maybe if this thread continues in a positive direction I'll feel more comfortable about changing my mind and give some examples, but for now suffice it to say that I have verified these experiences in the manners you have mentioned.

[Zarathustra]

Esmer, I respect that. These are deeply personal, even "spiritual" topics. One is often met with skepticism, ridicule, or worse when one puts these ideas out there for public scrutiny.

Having had experiences which I know would be scoffed at by others who haven't had them, I can understand completely the reluctance to go into detail.

However, just because I've experienced things that have opened my eyes, I still remain skeptical of claims that seem to require any kind of dualism. Like I said, I don't believe in an independent spirit, separable from the body, so by definition OOBEs seem implausible to me. But maybe that's because I've never had one. And because I know the power of lucid dreams, trance-like states, etc. While I believe these states can reveal quite a lot about consciousness and reality, I think it takes a metaphysical leap of faith to believe they actually transport you outside your body. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the concept.

I'm willing to entertain the possibility of some pretty crazy shit. I'm not even going to list some of them, because I know how silly it sounds. I'll just say: I'm not entirely sure we are alone in this universe. In fact, I'm pretty sure we're not.

[lucimay]

i'm having a oobx right now just realizing you two are having a civil conversation!

c hugs malik and esmer ------>