Michael Jackson

[benzss]

The court made a decision, and no proof has been offered otherwise. It would not be prudent or correct to label the man as a paedophile.

Hopefully he'll be remembered for his music, not his curious lifestyle.

[Zarathustra]

Hopefully he'll be remembered for his music, not his curious lifestyle.

No . . . I'm pretty much hoping people will forget his horrid music and remember him for dangling his own child over a deadly fall, getting children drunk and sleeping with them (which he admitted to--whether or not they had sex before they slept is debatable).

I really hope people don't forget how irresponsible he was simply because he sold a lot more records than his mediocre talent deserved.

And since when is not liking a musician Tank material? Can we do the same thing about people who don't like Rush (the band)?

[benzss]

Hopefully he'll be remembered for his music, not his curious lifestyle.

No . . . I'm pretty much hoping people will forget his horrid music and remember him for dangling his own child over a deadly fall, getting children drunk and sleeping with them (which he admitted to--whether or not they had sex before they slept is debatable).

I really hope people don't forget how irresponsible he was simply because he sold a lot more records than his mediocre talent deserved.

And since when is not liking a musician Tank material? Can we do the same thing about people who don't like Rush (the band)?

If you're so comfortable with such a rash conclusion, then that's your call. He may or may not have had dodgy intentions, but I prefer to rely on evidence rather than gut feeling. Dangling a baby over a balcony is pretty damn stupid, but that's about it, heh.

And music is a matter of taste, but he did write some decent material. Nothing close to the best, but that's another discussion entirely...

[dlbpharmd]

Innocent until proven guilty is the theory- But, as I recall, a young child described Micheal's penis in detail and the jury still found him innocent. WTF!? My children can't desribe mine in detail. You know why? I don't display it for them.

According to the 'accuser' (whatever his name was, I forget), Jackson entered the room naked, then left. Very poor judgement, and good grounds for suspicion. But people who were given more comprehensive evidence than us deemed it not sexual. He was fully acquitted, remember?

By a California jury - certainly not the most open minded and quick thinking group of people around. OJ, anyone?

[sindatur]

I hesitated to reply to the thread, but...

He was an artist the world loved, (and the world of art is less rich), who lived a tragic life, and had to escape into a fantasy world 24/7 to deal with the trauma of growing up. I can definitely accept it's possible that he honestly believed he was still the same as children, and honestly believed there was nothing wrong with liking little boys. (But that doesn't make his attraction to boys right)

He may never actually have molested the boys, as the court found him not guilty. However, do not forget the book(S?) of naked pictures of pre-pubescent boys in suggestive poses, that was in a hidden room, behind his bedroom closet, that was a shrine to McCauly Culkin. Possible he's not guilty of the act, but, there is reasonable doubt to be cautious. And then of course, there was Jesus Juice, that's pretty abusive to sell alcohol to children calling it Jesus Juice, especially when you espouse such a Faith in God as Michael did.

<bows back out of thread>

[aliantha]

And since when is not liking a musician Tank material? Can we do the same thing about people who don't like Rush (the band)?

Feel free.

I split these posts from a topic in GenDisc at the suggestion of a couple of folks there. The suggestion seemed to have merit: it's a topical, um, topic, and the discussion seemed to be getting contentious. And it looks like it'll continue to be news for awhile -- I saw earlier today that some folks around Michael Jackson have been worried for awhile about his ready access to prescription meds.

That said, I positively don't care what y'all do with this thread. Feel free to move it somewhere else.

[Dromond]

Hopefully he'll be remembered for his music, not his curious lifestyle.

No . . . I'm pretty much hoping people will forget his horrid music and remember him for dangling his own child over a deadly fall, getting children drunk and sleeping with them (which he admitted to--whether or not they had sex before they slept is debatable).

I really hope people don't forget how irresponsible he was simply because he sold a lot more records than his mediocre talent deserved.

And since when is not liking a musician Tank material? Can we do the same thing about people who don't like Rush (the band)?

If you're so comfortable with such a rash conclusion, then that's your call. He may or may not have had dodgy intentions, but I prefer to rely on evidence rather than gut feeling. Dangling a baby over a balcony is pretty damn stupid, but that's about it, heh.

And music is a matter of taste, but he did write some decent material. Nothing close to the best, but that's another discussion entirely...

Yeah, but in the court of public opinion, where all known(and perhaps, unknown) evidence is weighed, that's a different story.

[Farsailer]

We won't know that particular finding for awhile, indeed maybe never, it could be kept from the public, but I'm sure the toxicological tests will reveal a high degree of prescription narcotics in his system. An attempt to escape the reality of his life instead of dealing with it like the rest of us would. I have very little sympathy for him; he wasn't someone who could man up and accept responsibility.

He wrote some good stuff back in the 70's and the 80's, but it's hard to separate out the images of all the bizarre stuff after that. Hyperbaric chamber, anyone? We can be pretty sure something happened that required a $20m settlement. Yet the sellouts of the shows he was going to do in London this year show the public capacity to forgive a lot. Could we learn from that? Perhaps...

[Harbinger]

For 23 million, I'd put on some OshKosh overalls and let him play with myy wee-wee. I'd probably spend half of it on counseling later, though.

[Farsailer]

Some questionable company... HERE

[Dromond]

Some questionable company... HERE

The blinders people have put on themselves regarding this creepy bastard boggles the mind.

[Loredoctor]

Some questionable company... HERE

Now that's interesting . . .

[Avatar]

*shrug* Was never a fan of his music. Pretty much always suspected that he was guilty of impropriety at best, especially after he made that settlement. In the end, his life and death haven't affected me in the slightest.

History will no doubt largely remain focused on his musical career and the rest will fade away to the superficial glance.

--A

[Dromond]

This is just a hunch and prediction, but here it is:

I believe he was paying people to be quiet, he was being blackmailed... now that he's dead, the money may dry up and we're gonna see videos and or other solid proof emerge of what really happened in Never Neverland.

[finn]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the specifics, he was one wierd dude and a poster child for the evils of celebrity. I really wonder at attitudes towards blatant exploitation of kids, not the so called victims mothers, but Jackson's family. I mean he was screwed up way before he became Wacko Jacko, it just took the seeds a while to germinate.

As for his music I tend to be closer to Malik here, but there was a short spell around "thriller" that was very, very, good; tho' one also has to balance between the genius of the product against the genius of how it was marketed. Maybe there's a question of the need for torment and genius or indeed madness and genius to walk a parallel path, but I'm not sure it's applicable with here.

When you see young pinnacle-celebs fall off the peg, it really does beg the question and that's just those who made it: what of those who did not and are possibly even more screwed up. Kids in those beauty pageants and parents who push kids through hell to be top gymnasts or into other pursuits they themselves could never find fulfillment in.

I did not admire Michael Jackson, I pitied him!

[Prebe]

Meh. I personally think he was a fruitcake with a warped mind, but that's my personal opinion.

Michael Jackson paid eight figures.....that's between 10 and 100 million dollars to settle his child molestation lawsuit. F*ck him, innocent people don't do that.

According to the jury they do apparently. Much like OJ.

[Cail]

Meh. I personally think he was a fruitcake with a warped mind, but that's my personal opinion.

Michael Jackson paid eight figures.....that's between 10 and 100 million dollars to settle his child molestation lawsuit. F*ck him, innocent people don't do that.

According to the jury they do apparently. Much like OJ.

Not even close to the same thing. OJ was found not guilty in his criminal trial, then found responsible in the civil trial. MJ paid of the kid's parents to prevent them from pressing charges...So there was no criminal or civil trial.

[Dromond]

Meh. I personally think he was a fruitcake with a warped mind, but that's my personal opinion.

Michael Jackson paid eight figures.....that's between 10 and 100 million dollars to settle his child molestation lawsuit. F*ck him, innocent people don't do that.

According to the jury they do apparently. Much like OJ.

Not even close to the same thing. OJ was found not guilty in his criminal trial, then found responsible in the civil trial. MJ paid of the kid's parents to prevent them from pressing charges...So there was no criminal or civil trial.

The first time, anyway. The mere fact there was a second time, and he kept sleeping with boys after the $20 million payout says all one needs to know.

[Zarathustra]

This is just a hunch and prediction, but here it is:

I believe he was paying people to be quiet, he was being blackmailed... now that he's dead, the money may dry up and we're gonna see videos and or other solid proof emerge of what really happened in Never Neverland.

I agree. I think we're going to learn a lot.

I saw an old (early 90s) interview with Latoya (sp?) Jackson by Geraldo Rivera where she seemed horrified by the little boys MJ was spending time with, alone, locked in his room for weeks at a time. They wouldn't come out to eat, or anything. Had food delivered to them. That was his sister saying this, not some tabloid rumor. I think there is already a lot of info out there that people have simply forgotten about.

[Harbinger]

Janet once called him a pedophile and later retracted her statement.