Lord Foul's Bane question about Atiaran

[Krazy Kat]

What Covenant did to Lena was exactly what Foul wanted!

*damn trains*

[Earthfriend]

Maybe this was part of the problem with the wraith issue. Covenant took decisive action to rape Lena, yet he claimed helplessness against the ur-viles. One thing he wanted (instinctively if not consciously), the other he didn't; he didn't want the responsibility of saving the wraiths, or of carrying the power. You will act to harm a young girl but not to protect the wraiths?

I'm pretty sure Covenant did try to save the Wraiths, just not through his ring. As far as he is concerned his ring is merely a now-defuncted wedding band, not the focus of Arch-destroying power. Covenant doesn't see it as a weapon - who would? 'Magic' doesn't exist where he comes from, and he is too new to the Land to know otherwise.

For me, this is all part of the paradox of Covenant. His rape of Lena - which should have reaped Atiaran's just rage and grief and the attention of the Stonedown - is dismissed. Conversely, when he doesn't use a power which he doesn't even realise exists, he is condemned for something that is not his fault. Just like leprosy.

Additionally, I think it important that it is Covenant himself that is the Wild Magic, not his ring. (I think it is Mhoram who first points this out in TPTP.)

[wayfriend]

For me, this is all part of the paradox of Covenant. His rape of Lena - which should have reaped Atiaran's just rage and grief and the attention of the Stonedown - is dismissed. Conversely, when he doesn't use a power which he doesn't even realise exists, he is condemned for something that is not his fault. Just like leprosy.

Ah, but imagine it from poor Atiaran's point of view. She, with what could only be called great personal sacrifice, dismissed (as you say) the rape of her own daughter... because Covenant's power to save the Land is paramount. And then she discovers that he is weak and defenseless ... unable to save even a wraith, let alone the Land. It casts doubt on that sacrifice, makes it seem wasted.

[CovenantJr]

Good point. I hadn't looked at it quite like that.

[Menolly]

Not just wasted. She knows wild magic is a paradox.
Her sacrifice could have damned the Land...

[Probot]

This is a great topic. I just "did" the 1st chrons again, and I don't know if it is the perspective I've gained through this sight, (True statement, been around for a few months, my TC edge has never gleemed as giddily.) or age, but I almost forgave TC immediatley after raping Lena. I'm not a monster! TC was in full blown hysteria about this dream he was having. He had just named HIMSELF the Unbeliever, after all. Who among us would not act irresponsibly if we knew waking was around the corner? I would be likely to attempt flight, personally, but a great many newly potent outcasts would go in search of what TC tore from Lena. And this is the action he had to believe against most throughout the 1st chrons, as it's reprecussions rippled endlessly. Lena's passing a heartbreaking scene.

Atiaran cemented herself as top 5 character on this read. She is our introduction to the land. The sense of devotion that we came to expect from people of the Land is because she is drawn so wonderfully. And, upon re-reading, makes Mithil Stonedown's state in RotE especially sad. And then I had this thought...

Is our inability to forgive TC a snapshot of our difference from the people of the Land? Do we forsake the big picture for scenes of attrocity? Crimes have been, and will continue, to be commited. Period. Atiaran had every right to leave TC to whatever outcome might befall him, but she saw the big picture. And a crime against the big picture, (wraiths, as the essence of the Land's most essential place) was much more unforgiveable to HER. Not to us. Just made me think about what we serve, and what I think an atrocity really is. I am surrounded by paper, Caerroil Wildwood would have my ass. I've shattered rocks with hammers, without any consideration for what Liand might never know. Sounds silly, but SVU continues to get ratings, and the Earth continues to choke.

[Wheelwash Whitecap]

In my opinion, TC raped Lena because....

1.He was impotent in the real world.
2.He did not think the land was real.
3.His reaction to his earth sense made him a little crazy.
4.He was smitten with her beauty.
5.SRD watched too many Soap Operas and saw the potential in this action by TC

I do not think any Raver had anything to do with it.

[Wheelwash Whitecap]

Question was:

"How is permitting wraiths to die worse than his rape of her daughter?"

The answer is in the text.."Give up! If I Gave up I would stab you where you stand. ....Other crimes I could set aside."

Atarian knows the importance of TC and white gold in the land and the importance of getting his message from LF to the council. She places this importance over all other things. By her saying the above statement she implies she has thought about doing exactly that ,stabbing him, (for allowing wraiths to die) but to do so would doom the land as well as break her oath of peace.

[Earthfriend]

Ah, but imagine it from poor Atiaran's point of view. She, with what could only be called great personal sacrifice, dismissed (as you say) the rape of her own daughter... because Covenant's power to save the Land is paramount. And then she discovers that he is weak and defenseless ... unable to save even a wraith, let alone the Land. It casts doubt on that sacrifice, makes it seem wasted.

Great point, Wayfriend! I had not considered it from Atiaran's pov.

And I think I was way to free with the word, 'dismissed'. This issue runs like fork lightning throughout the Chrons, it can't be dismissed.

[Earthfriend]

Not just wasted. She knows wild magic is a paradox.
Her sacrifice could have damned the Land...

Damn! Another great point! Do you think part of Atiaran thinks maybe she should kill Covenant, maybe it would be better for the Land, for surely, he will doom? If so, what strength she possessed, even more than I already credit her.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Gives a new prespective on why she tried to summon him. For the rape of Lena or to answer for a descreation of an innocents.

Why did she try to summon Cov? I can't remember...