9/11/01 - 09 'Tank Thoughts
9/11/01 - 09 'Tank Thoughts
Well, it's been 8 years. I'm curious to know how 'Tankers view the 9/11 attacks through that prism. Has the world changed as much for you as we felt it would on 9/12/01? Remember when it was announced that irony was dead? Non-USA 'Tankers, what are your thoughts?
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
-- James Madison
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
-- James Madison
"If you're going to tell people the truth, you'd better make them laugh. Otherwise they'll kill you." - George Bernard Shaw
Honestly, it's like it never happened. I think the government's done a piss-poor job of making the country safer (though they've done a great job of f*cking up air travel). And I think that most people have forgotten what happened, and have gone back to just taking everything for granted.
Edit-By the way, thanks for starting the topic.
Edit-By the way, thanks for starting the topic.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Maybe I agree w/Cail, b/c I don't think I really have much thought about it. I don't take things for granted, but I guess I have kind of forgotten about it.
--Andy
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
For the first time really, I actually teared up a bit about it. Listening to some survivor stories on the radio, the part about people leaping to their deaths to avoid the flames and instructing evacuees not to look out over the courtyard really got to me.
It's tough for 9/11 to get its due since it's so tied to the political contention with the war on/of terror. Folks against the war in Iraq, and perhaps even Afghanistan are hesitant to really take in the emotional component of 9/11, perhaps fearing it implies a concession with GWB's methodology.
Folks that support this militaristic response tend to really feed off of the drama of that day and it's difficult to tell how genuine they feel about 9/11 or if it's more about validating a dramatic international response.
I guess I'm one that is entirely dramatic about 9/11, no doubt. Thousands of people died. People's moms, dads, brothers, sisters, husband, wives, kids and so forth - just terrible. They died traumatically. Most of us are comforted when someone dies suddenly; the lack of pain or anguish is easier to bear. The major majority of these people died in shock and horror. That's painful to really take in.
And I don't think that invalidates my stand against the subsequent Iraq war and GWB's policies that conflict with our spirit of liberty. I don't think he was evil and secretly wished for a fascist rule - I think he followed a philosophy many of us simply disagree with for passionate, thought out reasons.
Of course, it's also my mother's birthday. That makes a little strange to wish her happy birthday when so many are emotionally invested in the drama of this anniversary.
Our country has sure changed, that's no doubt.
It's tough for 9/11 to get its due since it's so tied to the political contention with the war on/of terror. Folks against the war in Iraq, and perhaps even Afghanistan are hesitant to really take in the emotional component of 9/11, perhaps fearing it implies a concession with GWB's methodology.
Folks that support this militaristic response tend to really feed off of the drama of that day and it's difficult to tell how genuine they feel about 9/11 or if it's more about validating a dramatic international response.
I guess I'm one that is entirely dramatic about 9/11, no doubt. Thousands of people died. People's moms, dads, brothers, sisters, husband, wives, kids and so forth - just terrible. They died traumatically. Most of us are comforted when someone dies suddenly; the lack of pain or anguish is easier to bear. The major majority of these people died in shock and horror. That's painful to really take in.
And I don't think that invalidates my stand against the subsequent Iraq war and GWB's policies that conflict with our spirit of liberty. I don't think he was evil and secretly wished for a fascist rule - I think he followed a philosophy many of us simply disagree with for passionate, thought out reasons.
Of course, it's also my mother's birthday. That makes a little strange to wish her happy birthday when so many are emotionally invested in the drama of this anniversary.
Our country has sure changed, that's no doubt.
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stonemaybe
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The world has completely changed -maybe you've just got used to it over the last couple of years?
A UK view, as requested...
I know that when I travel, my Irish accent will no longer result in suspicion and I don't expect further questioning - that pleasure is now reserved for the beardies, North African, or Pakistani passengers.
Something which I grew up with, has now spread everywhere - a bag or box or package unattended will immediately provoke over-the-top suspicion and fear and probably end up being blown up in a controlled explosion, after an evacuation.
Last week, for example, I was travelling with a rucksack - a bloody big one. I felt I couldn't take it off at all! I flew into Belfast (and there's irony for you!) and had to kill a couple of hours until a friend got off work and could pick me up. I went for a pint, was dying for a pee, and had to take this bloody huge backpack with me to the toilet rather than leave it at my table for the two minutes it would have taken. Wouldn't have thought twice about leaving it, when I was studying in Belfast, during the Troubles.
No litter bins at railway stations. If you're lucky, there might be clear plastic bags hanging from a metal hoop.
White middle class paranoia of their own racism is now concerned more with Islam than black people.
And maybe not stemming from 9/11, but from what happened after and as a result of 9/11, distrust of politicians is at an all-time high.
I'm sure I'll think of more soon.
Maybe you USers don't feel anything has changed, because your country's borders are less visible than here in the UK, say. What percentage of your airports have international flights coming in? (Probably every airport here does, and wherever you live, there'll be one close by) How far do you live from the coast/border compared with just about everyone in the UK? What percentage of every town is Islamic? I'd say it's a different world over there, and you probably don't have your paranoia to contend with on a daily basis, as we do here. The paranoia/fear that is a direct result of media and government scaremongering since 9/11. I recognise it for what it is, but that doesn't mean that I still don't FEEL it, mostly every day.
9/11 has changed my world more than any other event I can think of, including the Good Friday Peace Agreement when I lived in Northern Ireland.
A UK view, as requested...
I know that when I travel, my Irish accent will no longer result in suspicion and I don't expect further questioning - that pleasure is now reserved for the beardies, North African, or Pakistani passengers.
Something which I grew up with, has now spread everywhere - a bag or box or package unattended will immediately provoke over-the-top suspicion and fear and probably end up being blown up in a controlled explosion, after an evacuation.
Last week, for example, I was travelling with a rucksack - a bloody big one. I felt I couldn't take it off at all! I flew into Belfast (and there's irony for you!) and had to kill a couple of hours until a friend got off work and could pick me up. I went for a pint, was dying for a pee, and had to take this bloody huge backpack with me to the toilet rather than leave it at my table for the two minutes it would have taken. Wouldn't have thought twice about leaving it, when I was studying in Belfast, during the Troubles.
No litter bins at railway stations. If you're lucky, there might be clear plastic bags hanging from a metal hoop.
White middle class paranoia of their own racism is now concerned more with Islam than black people.
And maybe not stemming from 9/11, but from what happened after and as a result of 9/11, distrust of politicians is at an all-time high.
I'm sure I'll think of more soon.
Maybe you USers don't feel anything has changed, because your country's borders are less visible than here in the UK, say. What percentage of your airports have international flights coming in? (Probably every airport here does, and wherever you live, there'll be one close by) How far do you live from the coast/border compared with just about everyone in the UK? What percentage of every town is Islamic? I'd say it's a different world over there, and you probably don't have your paranoia to contend with on a daily basis, as we do here. The paranoia/fear that is a direct result of media and government scaremongering since 9/11. I recognise it for what it is, but that doesn't mean that I still don't FEEL it, mostly every day.
9/11 has changed my world more than any other event I can think of, including the Good Friday Peace Agreement when I lived in Northern Ireland.
Aglithophile and conniptionist and spectacular moonbow beholder 16Jul11
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finn
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I think I view it now as I would the anniversary of a friends' loved one passing, a wife or husband, mother, father, brother, etc. It has no direct emotional stigmata but you wish to show some sensitivity to that friend.
By and large the consequences are what remain and I pretty much agree with Cail's responsein that respect, but I have to add albeit with the benefit of hindsight, that the actions of the US Administration, especially in using such a tragedy as an excuse to propel another agenda in Iraq, were in my view, both cynical and disgusting. That those in power would so disrespect the people they were supposed to serve, at such a time, will I believe eventual consign them to a place in history few would want to share.
I'll add to that I don't think their actions were about their party or their politics, they were indictments of them as poor and thoroughly shoddy people.
Regardless of that, I don't think it hurts to take a moment to remember those who died, but also the heroism and stoicism that New Yorkers in particular showed. If the efforts of the Spitfire pilots in England in 1940 was Britain's finest hour, I think the work of the Fireman and Emergency Workers in New York on that day may well qualify as yours.
By and large the consequences are what remain and I pretty much agree with Cail's responsein that respect, but I have to add albeit with the benefit of hindsight, that the actions of the US Administration, especially in using such a tragedy as an excuse to propel another agenda in Iraq, were in my view, both cynical and disgusting. That those in power would so disrespect the people they were supposed to serve, at such a time, will I believe eventual consign them to a place in history few would want to share.
I'll add to that I don't think their actions were about their party or their politics, they were indictments of them as poor and thoroughly shoddy people.
Regardless of that, I don't think it hurts to take a moment to remember those who died, but also the heroism and stoicism that New Yorkers in particular showed. If the efforts of the Spitfire pilots in England in 1940 was Britain's finest hour, I think the work of the Fireman and Emergency Workers in New York on that day may well qualify as yours.
"Winston, if you were my husband I'd give you poison" ................ "Madam, if you were my wife I would drink it!"
"Terrorism is war by the poor, and war is terrorism by the rich"
"A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well."
"The opposite of pro-life isn't pro-death. Y'know?"
"What if the Hokey Cokey really is what its all about?"
"Terrorism is war by the poor, and war is terrorism by the rich"
"A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well."
"The opposite of pro-life isn't pro-death. Y'know?"
"What if the Hokey Cokey really is what its all about?"
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Avatar
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Well put Finn.
Personally, I don't have any emotional attachment to it. Any more than I do to the victims of Hiroshima or Dresden. But I recognise it as a momentous occasion.
(And I doubt my GF will ever let me forget that my initial reaction to hearing the news was based more on tactical and strategic considerations than on compassionate ones.)
As for Cail's comment, he's probably right. It seems natural to me (and clearly StoneMaybe), that things like that lose their emotional impact after a while. When you live with the possibility of random lethal violence for long enough, it doesn't become particularly noteworthy. (I grant that in this case, the scale was huge though.)
The US wasn't innured to things like that through long exposure, so the nerve was a particularly raw one. But all things pass. We can't live with that intensity of emotion for very long. Instead, we continue to function and go about our daily lives while the present slips into the past.
--A
Personally, I don't have any emotional attachment to it. Any more than I do to the victims of Hiroshima or Dresden. But I recognise it as a momentous occasion.
(And I doubt my GF will ever let me forget that my initial reaction to hearing the news was based more on tactical and strategic considerations than on compassionate ones.)
As for Cail's comment, he's probably right. It seems natural to me (and clearly StoneMaybe), that things like that lose their emotional impact after a while. When you live with the possibility of random lethal violence for long enough, it doesn't become particularly noteworthy. (I grant that in this case, the scale was huge though.)
The US wasn't innured to things like that through long exposure, so the nerve was a particularly raw one. But all things pass. We can't live with that intensity of emotion for very long. Instead, we continue to function and go about our daily lives while the present slips into the past.
--A
There is not a day I don't think about it. I am reminded in so many ways, in the little things that happen every day, at work and at home.
Going over any bridge into NYC trucks have to go on the upper level of the bridge, in case there is a bomb, it will do less damage on the upper level.
Watching the cops, in cop cars (asleep) on overtime at each entrance and each exit, waiting for a terrorist attack.
The bumper-stickers on cars memorializing different family members lost on that day.
When I go in a building I confirm where the exits are.
The need to wear or least carry an ID at all times in lower manhattan.
Submitting to searches entering the subways.
Drills, emergency supplies, spot inspections at work.
Watching the new construction in the giant hole that was the WTC. What always strikes me is there is one building they still havent taken down and it is shrouded in a black netting (to keep debris from falling) that makes it look like a widow standing over the burial plot.
The notes pinned to the fence surrounding the construction.
The tourists always asking where the site is/was and always standing, watching the site as you make your way to work.
Opening a co-workers desk draw and seeing a filter mask always at ready.
The anti-flack jacketed soldiers on the corners with heavy weapons.
No mailboxes (also for the anthrax scare)
The memorials in all the small towns in NJ and NY that lost so many. My tiny town lost 18 men and women.
The firefighters that come to my job. It reminds me of the 250 men lost on that day. They are so big and powerful, yet were so helpless in those last minutes. They must have felt the same terror that all those men and women felt when it came crashing down on them.
When I watch movies with the NYC skyline and see the towers in the pictures and realize, each time, that the skyline is forever changed.
It did happen and I will not forget, I will never forget. But I will never let it change who I am, where I work, what I do. I will never let it force me into fearing people by their race or their religion.
But it did happen.
Going over any bridge into NYC trucks have to go on the upper level of the bridge, in case there is a bomb, it will do less damage on the upper level.
Watching the cops, in cop cars (asleep) on overtime at each entrance and each exit, waiting for a terrorist attack.
The bumper-stickers on cars memorializing different family members lost on that day.
When I go in a building I confirm where the exits are.
The need to wear or least carry an ID at all times in lower manhattan.
Submitting to searches entering the subways.
Drills, emergency supplies, spot inspections at work.
Watching the new construction in the giant hole that was the WTC. What always strikes me is there is one building they still havent taken down and it is shrouded in a black netting (to keep debris from falling) that makes it look like a widow standing over the burial plot.
The notes pinned to the fence surrounding the construction.
The tourists always asking where the site is/was and always standing, watching the site as you make your way to work.
Opening a co-workers desk draw and seeing a filter mask always at ready.
The anti-flack jacketed soldiers on the corners with heavy weapons.
No mailboxes (also for the anthrax scare)
The memorials in all the small towns in NJ and NY that lost so many. My tiny town lost 18 men and women.
The firefighters that come to my job. It reminds me of the 250 men lost on that day. They are so big and powerful, yet were so helpless in those last minutes. They must have felt the same terror that all those men and women felt when it came crashing down on them.
When I watch movies with the NYC skyline and see the towers in the pictures and realize, each time, that the skyline is forever changed.
It did happen and I will not forget, I will never forget. But I will never let it change who I am, where I work, what I do. I will never let it force me into fearing people by their race or their religion.
But it did happen.
The loudest truth I ever heard was the softest sound.
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Zarathustra
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My son is 8. He was just a baby when it happened. He's finally getting mature enough to really comprehend the magnitude of the terror, loss, sacrifice, and bravery. I told him about Flight 93, and he cried for 20 minutes. I don't think I've ever seen him cry that hard about anything, not even when one of the neighborhood knuckleheads threw a golf ball-size rock at him, hitting him in the shin.
The story of the firefighters who survived in the one stairwell that didn't collapse always gets me. They could feel the first tower fall. Felt it shake the tower they were in. At that point, they knew their tower was coming down, too, and ordered their men to evacuate. And though they knew it could come down any minute, they helped a group of people down the hundred or so flights of stairs, including a large woman who could barely walk, slowing them down when they could have easily just saved themselves. They were still about 7 stories up when the tower came down, but miraculously they survived.
And of course the jumpers. Go to Youtube and watch, if you can. It's hard to watch them--some holding hands as they fall--but I still feel like I need to witness their last seconds, that someone needs to know their pain and terror, and remember.
The story of the firefighters who survived in the one stairwell that didn't collapse always gets me. They could feel the first tower fall. Felt it shake the tower they were in. At that point, they knew their tower was coming down, too, and ordered their men to evacuate. And though they knew it could come down any minute, they helped a group of people down the hundred or so flights of stairs, including a large woman who could barely walk, slowing them down when they could have easily just saved themselves. They were still about 7 stories up when the tower came down, but miraculously they survived.
And of course the jumpers. Go to Youtube and watch, if you can. It's hard to watch them--some holding hands as they fall--but I still feel like I need to witness their last seconds, that someone needs to know their pain and terror, and remember.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
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aTOMiC
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911 represents the single most shocking, depressing horifying day I can remember. I was thortoughly affected by the event and even weeks later I actually still felt guilty about enjoying the slightest daily pleasure while knowing that thousands of people just like me had been lost. Thousands of others would never see their wives, husbands, children, parents and friends ever again. And there were still more that were out there every day fighting through that mountain of twisted steel, dedicated to the idea that every person lost deserved to be found returned to their loved ones. I can't imagine a day that I'll think of that moment in time and not be filled with sadness.
I'm not an emotional guy for the most part. I would have thought it would be easy for me to allow the feelings fade over time but though I can honestly say it doesn't occupy my every waking moment when it does cross my mind the reaction is the same as the last time I thought about it.
I live in Florida far from where each tragedy happened but time and distance seemed to have 0 impact on me.
I can't imagine feeling otherwise.
I'm not an emotional guy for the most part. I would have thought it would be easy for me to allow the feelings fade over time but though I can honestly say it doesn't occupy my every waking moment when it does cross my mind the reaction is the same as the last time I thought about it.
I live in Florida far from where each tragedy happened but time and distance seemed to have 0 impact on me.
I can't imagine feeling otherwise.
"If you can't tell the difference, what difference does it make?"
"There is tic and toc in atomic" - Neil Peart
I do remember a tears over the week reflecting on it... thinking about the jumpers and the situation they were caught in...
...thinking about the utter hypocrisy of the hijackers, being treated so well in America, and given their opportunities here, and they chose to give such a reward in exchange... is proof to me that there is good and evil in the world, it's not just about playing nice and sharing and singing kumbaya.
...the shear numbers and size of the destruction, the cruel absurdity of the film showing the second plane hit the building, it's hard to believe that it's a real image.
...and I will always remember turning the radio on that morning, and thinking that it was an Orson Wells inspired radio play, because the regular host wasn't on, some tv news anchor was broadcasting, trying to catch up with events just as quickly as anyone who was listening.
...Just before I'd gotten into my car to drive to work, I remembered reading about tha assassination of Mossoud(sp?) in Afghanistan and thinking it was sad that other parts of the world had to live in the context of that kind of violence, that such a person who was trying to fight for freedom against the opressive Taliban, should be cut down, was sad enough news to start the day...before I turned on the radio.
...thinking about the utter hypocrisy of the hijackers, being treated so well in America, and given their opportunities here, and they chose to give such a reward in exchange... is proof to me that there is good and evil in the world, it's not just about playing nice and sharing and singing kumbaya.
...the shear numbers and size of the destruction, the cruel absurdity of the film showing the second plane hit the building, it's hard to believe that it's a real image.
...and I will always remember turning the radio on that morning, and thinking that it was an Orson Wells inspired radio play, because the regular host wasn't on, some tv news anchor was broadcasting, trying to catch up with events just as quickly as anyone who was listening.
...Just before I'd gotten into my car to drive to work, I remembered reading about tha assassination of Mossoud(sp?) in Afghanistan and thinking it was sad that other parts of the world had to live in the context of that kind of violence, that such a person who was trying to fight for freedom against the opressive Taliban, should be cut down, was sad enough news to start the day...before I turned on the radio.
"Humanity indisputably progresses, but neither uniformly nor everywhere"--Regine Pernoud
You work while you can, because who knows how long you can. Even if it's exhausting work for less pay. All it takes is the 'benevolence' of an incompetant politician or bureaucrat to leave you without work to do and no paycheck to collect. --Tjol
You work while you can, because who knows how long you can. Even if it's exhausting work for less pay. All it takes is the 'benevolence' of an incompetant politician or bureaucrat to leave you without work to do and no paycheck to collect. --Tjol
You know, I'm not even an American but I think I have stronger emotions over 911 than a lot of Americans. I identify with the guy that penned this:
"As I understand, to remember the horror of 3,000 murders on 9/11/2001, President Obama has called for citizens to pick up litter or work in soup kitchens or register voters or some other public service. Frankly, I'm offended. It appears that the President wants the remembrance of 9/11 besmirched down to something similar to Arbor Day.
Personally, I want to relive all the sensations of 9/11, recharging my storehouses of outrage and white-hot anger, of sadness, of sorrow and of fear. I want to remember the heroism of the New York Fire Department, the New York Police Department and the Port Authority Police. I want my long-term memory prompted to recall images of sobbing wives and mothers and sons and daughters and fathers and husbands. I want to remember tears from reddened eyes on faces of loved ones holding photos of the missing, crying for help, crying for information. And, I want to remember who the terrorists were and still are and I want justice.
There are American children born after 9/11 who don't know what occurred and they are not going to learn by cleaning litter from ditches or planting trees. They will learn by national emphasis on what happened that day when 3,000 friends and neighbors were killed in a terrorist attack on the United States.
Today should be devoted to talking and learning about what happened on 9/11. Picking up litter can wait until tomorrow."
"As I understand, to remember the horror of 3,000 murders on 9/11/2001, President Obama has called for citizens to pick up litter or work in soup kitchens or register voters or some other public service. Frankly, I'm offended. It appears that the President wants the remembrance of 9/11 besmirched down to something similar to Arbor Day.
Personally, I want to relive all the sensations of 9/11, recharging my storehouses of outrage and white-hot anger, of sadness, of sorrow and of fear. I want to remember the heroism of the New York Fire Department, the New York Police Department and the Port Authority Police. I want my long-term memory prompted to recall images of sobbing wives and mothers and sons and daughters and fathers and husbands. I want to remember tears from reddened eyes on faces of loved ones holding photos of the missing, crying for help, crying for information. And, I want to remember who the terrorists were and still are and I want justice.
There are American children born after 9/11 who don't know what occurred and they are not going to learn by cleaning litter from ditches or planting trees. They will learn by national emphasis on what happened that day when 3,000 friends and neighbors were killed in a terrorist attack on the United States.
Today should be devoted to talking and learning about what happened on 9/11. Picking up litter can wait until tomorrow."
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Kinslaughterer
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Never a bad time to rationalize dislike for Obama. Yeah, white hot anger against someone calling for service rather than the folks who ignored the warning signs.
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- Professor Henry Jones Jr.
"Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet."
https://crowcanyon.org/
support your local archaeologist!
Yea, no need to attack Obama, but Kins, I think the anger was towards those who attacked, not Obama. It referred to reliving 9/11 sensations, so Obama wasn't really on the scene by then.
See how easy it is to read bias into something?
See how easy it is to read bias into something?
--Andy
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
exactly! Although I am all for the idea of a day of service, by attaching it to 911 the meaning of the date is lost. Why not a day of service on Labor day? Memorial Day?Vain wrote:You know, I'm not even an American but I think I have stronger emotions over 911 than a lot of Americans. I identify with the guy that penned this:
"As I understand, to remember the horror of 3,000 murders on 9/11/2001, President Obama has called for citizens to pick up litter or work in soup kitchens or register voters or some other public service. Frankly, I'm offended. It appears that the President wants the remembrance of 9/11 besmirched down to something similar to Arbor Day.
Personally, I want to relive all the sensations of 9/11, recharging my storehouses of outrage and white-hot anger, of sadness, of sorrow and of fear. I want to remember the heroism of the New York Fire Department, the New York Police Department and the Port Authority Police. I want my long-term memory prompted to recall images of sobbing wives and mothers and sons and daughters and fathers and husbands. I want to remember tears from reddened eyes on faces of loved ones holding photos of the missing, crying for help, crying for information. And, I want to remember who the terrorists were and still are and I want justice.
There are American children born after 9/11 who don't know what occurred and they are not going to learn by cleaning litter from ditches or planting trees. They will learn by national emphasis on what happened that day when 3,000 friends and neighbors were killed in a terrorist attack on the United States.
Today should be devoted to talking and learning about what happened on 9/11. Picking up litter can wait until tomorrow."
The loudest truth I ever heard was the softest sound.
It's easier than formulating an opinion.Cybrweez wrote:Yea, no need to attack Obama, but Kins, I think the anger was towards those who attacked, not Obama. It referred to reliving 9/11 sensations, so Obama wasn't really on the scene by then.
See how easy it is to read bias into something?
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Right on. It doesn't seem appropriate to promote work when grieving. "Hey, when you get done crying for your dead father, could you spoon out some soup for the homeless? Thanks".lorin wrote:exactly! Although I am all for the idea of a day of service, by attaching it to 911 the meaning of the date is lost. Why not a day of service on Labor day? Memorial Day?
On the other hand, a certain radio talk show host referred to the heroism and community effort on 9/11 as "american exceptionalism". That strikes me as politically exploitive, as much as they claim Obama's call for service is.
Isn't that more about "human exceptionalism"? Is there really a country that would ignore their own human need during a catastrophe? Is there really a people that don't possess the same nobility and selflessness that we saw from our own? I just thought this was a human trait, not so much an "american" trait.
Regardless, I'm proud that we as americans are still very human.
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[Syl]
- Unfettered One
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I'll take a day of service over another candy and greeting card holiday. I'll take it over furniture sales. I'll even take it over another reason to break out the barbecue.
Especially when you consider it comes so close to Labor Day, it's a reminder that summer's over, and it's time to get to work. Just as 9/11 made us all realize that the idyllic period where bad things only happen in other countries was over (though considering the recession, maybe not).
When the dust settled, I was at my recruiter's office. I took 9/11 as an end to my partying days, and chose to serve my country. A lot of my fellow servicemembers felt the same, which is why we're currently enjoying the Chapter 33 GI Bill benefits. I'll take doing something over talking about something any day, especially if it means not wallowing in self-pity but rather trying to make something better from a shitty situation.
Especially when you consider it comes so close to Labor Day, it's a reminder that summer's over, and it's time to get to work. Just as 9/11 made us all realize that the idyllic period where bad things only happen in other countries was over (though considering the recession, maybe not).
When the dust settled, I was at my recruiter's office. I took 9/11 as an end to my partying days, and chose to serve my country. A lot of my fellow servicemembers felt the same, which is why we're currently enjoying the Chapter 33 GI Bill benefits. I'll take doing something over talking about something any day, especially if it means not wallowing in self-pity but rather trying to make something better from a shitty situation.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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Lord Mhoram
- Lord
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