Pantheon - Discussions on the Future

[Menolly]

...grumbles...

...I hate change...

But I understand it's purpose, and if it will make things easier for you, so be it.

My only immediate reaction is that I'll miss named characters. It sounds like the game will become more focused on strategy than story, which is of far less interest to me. But, I may be totally misinterpreting what you are saying.

That said, I am not a theoretical thinker. I seem to only be able to process changes as I do them. I'll follow everyone else's input with interest though.

[Xar]

...grumbles...

...I hate change...

But I understand it's purpose, and if it will make things easier for you, so be it.

My only immediate reaction is that I'll miss named characters. It sounds like the game will become more focused on strategy than story, which is of far less interest to me. But, I may be totally misinterpreting what you are saying.

That said, I am not a theoretical thinker. I seem to only be able to process changes as I do them. I'll follow everyone else's input with interest though.

It's not like named characters will be gone entirely... you'll still have your Prophet, and occasionally a named character will pop up here and there. But one of the biggest hurdles when processing is when a player has a bunch of named characters (some from events, some he or she made up him- or herself when writing moves) and he or she moves all these characters around in the turn, often on missions which have no appreciable impact on the turn itself. You can still make up characters when writing story pieces, it's just that you won't be able to move them about at will.

[caamora]

I agree about the named characters. I can't even remember the names of my own, heh.

Could you explain more about the divine realm? Is it a place on the planet?

If you are only allowing 12 players (which is fine by me, by the way) which 12 get to play?? Don't we have more than 12 regulars already?

I certainly know that I want to be one of the 12 and already have a deity in mind to play with strategies already planned out. It would be disappointing if I wasn't chosen as one of the 12.

As for the other changes, they sound fine. I like the idea of the Houses and how everyone submits turns at different times. I can imagine how time consuming it is for you to process so many turns.

Overall, it seems that you have incorporated everything that we have all said in this thread. I'm easy and adaptable so whatever the rules are, I don't care. Just as long as I can play!!! LOL

[Menolly]

If you are only allowing 12 players (which is fine by me, by the way) which 12 get to play?? Don't we have more than 12 regulars already?

I certainly know that I want to be one of the 12 and already have a deity in mind to play with strategies already planned out. It would be disappointing if I wasn't chosen as one of the 12.

Ditto that.
Although my deity was based on continuing on Eiran.
I'll need to see if there will be a way to adapt that, should Eiran be destroyed...

[Xar]

Well, presumably the 12 slots would be filled on a first-come, first-serve basis... so as not to give preference to anyone. I'm not against eventually increasing the number of deities if I see it's manageable, but i'd like to start small to avoid glitches in the system. By the same token, when the time comes to register, I'll ask that one only registers if he or she is serious about playing (rather than just saying "I'll join" and then drop out two turns later because of real life or boredom). I'll probably also set up a "waiting list" where people who didn't get in can remain so that, if a slot opens up by a player's leaving, the first player in the waiting list may fill it in and so on.

Ideally of course I'd like to open the game to everyone, but the more players it has, the longer it takes to process, and the more complicated it becomes. Depending on the playtests I'll run before the game might start, I could increase the number of slots to 16 at the most, but that remains to be seen.

[caamora]

Ok, put my name on the waiting list please.

[Menolly]

*nod nod nod*

I assume The AllFather knows who is active and who isn't. I'll hope I see the post regarding registration in time to be among the first 12 (or 16).

[Avatar]

Yeah, me too. (Wait list me too if it's possible... )

Maybe you should make it that if anybody misses a deadline, they're automatically kicked to make room for somebody else?

And maybe a whole new world would be nice. No continuity from the previous games at all.

--A

[Xar]

Yeah, me too. (Wait list me too if it's possible... )

Maybe you should make it that if anybody misses a deadline, they're automatically kicked to make room for somebody else?

And maybe a whole new world would be nice. No continuity from the previous games at all.

--A

Very likely there would be stricter rules for missed deadlines - I'm not sure about the "one missed deadline and you're out", but it could be implemented together with a policy that if you think you're going to miss a deadline due to work or real life, you should notify the players (and me) before that deadline occurs, and that if you plan on taking an extended leave, you might be kicked out to make room for someone else unless the game went on hiatus (such as during Christmas holidays).

As for the setting, I had an idea which - if I can implement it nicely - should combine the best of both worlds...

[Avatar]

Well, some extenuating circumstances might be permissable...

--A

[Menolly]

Very likely there would be stricter rules for missed deadlines

Yay!!!

- I'm not sure about the "one missed deadline and you're out", but it could be implemented together with a policy that if you think you're going to miss a deadline due to work or real life, you should notify the players (and me) before that deadline occurs, and that if you plan on taking an extended leave, you might be kicked out to make room for someone else unless the game went on hiatus (such as during Christmas holidays).

Sounds like a plan to me.

I know when Passover has come around and I was cooking and celebrating around deadlines, I submitted as much as a week early, which I despise doing, as you never know what may come up in the game thread closer to deadline.

Knowing The AllFather's disdain for addendums and modifications to submittals, I generally hold off on submitting as long as I can.

As for the setting, I had an idea which - if I can implement it nicely - should combine the best of both worlds...

Looking forward to seeing whatever you come up with.
...I think.

[Fist and Faith]

Not too happy about the named characters thing. A character popped up four or five turns ago. The next turn, I gave him power to do something, that ended up helping a whole lot. I also had him look into a second issue. The turn after that, I had him act on that second issue, with amazing results! The turn after that, I gave him new powers, and sent him to other lands. I summoned him home after that.

Another character hasn't been needed yet, but was empowered. If the reason for empowering her does come about... Well, I don't think things would go well if she's not there.

It seems very limiting if we can't work through our followers. Giving them power is very useful, and very fun.

[Xar]

Not too happy about the named characters thing. A character popped up four or five turns ago. The next turn, I gave him power to do something, that ended up helping a whole lot. I also had him look into a second issue. The turn after that, I had him act on that second issue, with amazing results! The turn after that, I gave him new powers, and sent him to other lands. I summoned him home after that.

Another character hasn't been needed yet, but was empowered. If the reason for empowering her does come about... Well, I don't think things would go well if she's not there.

It seems very limiting if we can't work through our followers. Giving them power is very useful, and very fun.

I don't intend to eliminate named characters completely - some may appear due to events, and as "perks" when one has enough influence over a specific city. However, I'd like to cut back on the ballooning of named characters for each deity - some deities have 10 or more named characters at the moment, some of which really have no particular powers or skills, but were only created as part of a story and are now used because they exist, plain and simple. This way, the number of named characters wouldn't go down to zero, but would surely prevent this ballooning of fundamentally useless characters which take away processing time - and make submissions longer and more complicated to read, especially if sometimes one forgets who that character is.

[Fist and Faith]

I can dig that. Maybe we can't have any named characters who do not have power, whether they came to us that way, or we gave power to a follower?

And/Or

We cannot speak to any non-powered character. And we can't tell our Prophet to send a non-powered character anywhere specific or to do anything specific. We can tell the Prophet to get such-and-such done, and we let you figure out how that's accomplished. As opposed to telling the Prophet to "send John and Betty, who don't have any powers at all, to the next city, and have them hire a carpenter."

[The Numen]

+1 to what Fist said.

Also, looked at differently... any mortal that a deity has empowered... one could consider that mortal to be a prophet. Or a divine agent. Maybe merge all those into one class of character? So increase the cost to permenantly empower mortals to limit how much we do that. And only those mortals get to be named characters. Temporary empowerment or non-empowered actions, as Fist said, would all be logistics that the prophets handle so that we don't have to micro-manage them.

On the topic of the houses, how would we be allocated to the houses? You said that no two deities with the same domain would be in the same house. Would houses represent factions, so one group of allies would tend to act at the same time, then a different group would all act at the same time later in response to them? Or would a group of allies be spread across the houses, so that one or two members of one faction would act at the same time as one or two members of another faction... then one or two other members of each faction would act shortly after, etc.

Is the goal there to spread the actions by a group across the turn submission cycle, or to allow alternation between groups? (Either way, I see nothing wrong with it... just curiuos what your intent was. As Caam said, I just want to play... I'll work within whatever system you come up with.)

By joining this discussion, am I participating in activity that will delay turn processing? Perhaps I should just shut up, now.

[Fist and Faith]

3) Players, upon joining the game, will be required not just to come up with a dogma and a holy symbol, but also to develop two additional (but crucial) aspects of the deity's existence: the deity's divine realm... The deity's divine realm will serve different purposes, including a staging ground, a haven, a source of power and a potential vulnerability.

Wow! Sounds like we're making warrens!!

...and the deity's chosen race... The race will serve to give the player the possibility to create his own "perfect" followers (although attributes of the race will be assigned by me, so as to ensure fairness).

I'm not at all sure how we create them, but you assign their attributes? Obviously, you'd need to make it a level playing field, but I don't get how you mean that.

[Xar]

+1 to what Fist said.

Also, looked at differently... any mortal that a deity has empowered... one could consider that mortal to be a prophet. Or a divine agent. Maybe merge all those into one class of character? So increase the cost to permenantly empower mortals to limit how much we do that. And only those mortals get to be named characters. Temporary empowerment or non-empowered actions, as Fist said, would all be logistics that the prophets handle so that we don't have to micro-manage them.

On the topic of the houses, how would we be allocated to the houses? You said that no two deities with the same domain would be in the same house. Would houses represent factions, so one group of allies would tend to act at the same time, then a different group would all act at the same time later in response to them? Or would a group of allies be spread across the houses, so that one or two members of one faction would act at the same time as one or two members of another faction... then one or two other members of each faction would act shortly after, etc.

Is the goal there to spread the actions by a group across the turn submission cycle, or to allow alternation between groups? (Either way, I see nothing wrong with it... just curiuos what your intent was. As Caam said, I just want to play... I'll work within whatever system you come up with.)

By joining this discussion, am I participating in activity that will delay turn processing? Perhaps I should just shut up, now.

I think there will only be one Prophethood per deity, but it will be transferable if the current Prophet dies (or behaves in a less-than-righteous way regarding the deity's teachings). Prophets will be the most powerful mortals deities can have, I think, but there will also be an "intermediate level" between Prophets and common folk, and that will be filled by characters who appear through events or with enough influence in a city (i.e. particularly devout priests, powerful mages, influential politicians, etc), although you probably shouldn't expect many. As Fist said, the "no named characters who have no specific powers" rule would likely be part of the game, so that you can only interact directly with the named characters you have received (or imbued), or with your worshippers as a group.

Houses would mainly serve to divide the players into four different groups which would then submit at different times, as mentioned before. So if there are 12 players, there will be 3 players per House, and there will be separate deadlines for House 1, House 2, House 3 and House 4; players will only be able to submit their turns within the interval between the previous House's deadline and their own. Other than that, randomly assigning players to different Houses should also ensure a reduced likelihood that players who usually play as allies end up together in the same House (so that even if they decide to still ally together, it's unlikely they can all create harm or do good at the same time). I'm considering the possibility of giving Houses their own perks, which would essentially merge them with the Courts system (instead of having Houses and Courts as separate things), but that's something I would need to think about (although it would definitely help in preventing alliances between players as opposed to between characters).

As for the races, the idea is that you basically would describe their appearance and give me an idea of what kind of special abilities you'd like them to have (say, you might want to make a predator race of steel-plated centauroid carnivores, and you'd like them to be physically resilient and inhumanly strong), and then I'll take care of the mechanics.

Oh by the way, as for the playing list - it's not like P4 would begin tomorrow, so until P3 is finished I would rather not have people ask to be put on the waiting list. Once P3 is over, there will be an announcement when P4 is about to come out, and then people will be able to register for it, as usual.

[stonemaybe]

Hurray for P3 continuing!

A suggestion: 'number of followers'. You've always said that this isn't actually the number of followers you have, but a figure based on number of followers and the strength of their faith (I hope I have this right!), so why not call it something else entirely? 'manna' or something?

As for the setting, I had an idea which - if I can implement it nicely - should combine the best of both worlds...

This, I like!

[Menolly]

As for the setting, I had an idea which - if I can implement it nicely - should combine the best of both worlds...

This, I like!

Me too.
I was really, really unsure about playing in a setting totally disconnected from Eiran.

Yes, I know I'm doing it in Aesir, and will attempt to do so in Acropolis. But the history and background of Eiran is too rich for me to willingly see it totally fade away...

[Madadeva]

... But the history and background of Eiran is too rich for me to willingly see it totally fade away...

That will never happen!
.
.
.
Blasted completely out of existence perhaps!!!! But not fade away.