Lost--Season 6 - Spoilers Abound!!!

[lucimay]

well i'll continue with the spoiler tags until somebody tells me to stop, just in case.

anyhooooooo....

Spoiler

yes, shannon had prior commitments that kept her from rejoining the cast, thus explained by boone to locke on the plane as the relationship
she didn't want saving from after all.

and the explanation of why is hurly in australia to begin with if he didn't
go to investigate the cursed numbers was, i think, semi alluded to in the
conversation he was having on the phone with someone after reaching lax
in which he said something about restaurants and names of restaurants
and was saying something about "outback" heh. as if the possible reason
for him being in oz was something to do with his restaurants or starting a
new restaurant presumably possibly named outback, which would be really funny if hurly was the owner of outback restaurants!! lol!! i think what he said into the phone was something about outback being a stupid
name for a restaurant!

and yeah, as soon as i saw the ankh i thought "hmmm. symbol of life, now is that an indication that jacob is NOT actually dead???" serrously,
that was my first thought when i saw it. orrrrr....does it mean he died
"for their sins" maybe???? (incidentally how do you kill an "immortal"?)
and...yeah, the waters in the temple that they immersed sayid in were reddishly muddy...sorta bloody waters so to speak...so has sayid been
sort of "washed in the blood of the lamb" maybe? cleansed of his sins?
jacob seemed to think it was important (and so did the guys at the temple)
that sayid not die or else they were all screwed. symbolism abounds, eh?

annnnnddddd..... how exactly did juliet KNOW that "it worked" if she's dead? hmmm?

annnnddddd.... kate and claire in the taxi together. innnnteresting! i
didn't see claire on the plane.

annnndddd.... con man had his eye on lottery winner didn't he. heh.

and last but not least, the issue of desmond being on the plane or at
least jack thinking desmond was on the plane. where did he go? was
he actually there or not?

oh yeah and incidentally murrin, graboid is a paid service BUT you get a free 30 days if you register. that'd be enough time to watch the season premier and maybe the next episode or two depending on the size of the files. you don't have to give them money up front, just use it for the free 30 days. if it would work for you that is.

[I'm Murrin]

Most of the time when I post in threads where people are spoilering without any official word on the subject I ignore it and post openly. If a mod's said use spoilers, I'll listen to that.

But really, spoilers aren't something I think anyone should make a big deal out of. Maybe if it was a twist in the season finale, but not every detail in every episode.

I did cut out the name of a character in a quote I used in a book review recently, as I considered the discovery of his part important to the story, so it's all a matter of discretion IMO.

[Zarathustra]

I like symbolism as much as the next guy, unless the next guy is Lurch, but...[/spoiler]

That was a coffee-spit moment, right there! Too funny. I miss him, however. His posts were almost as cryptic as the show itself. Decoding them was part of the fun.

I'm not sure every symbol needs an explanation. Do we need to know how white gold works, for instance? At some point of explanation you reduce the fantasy to pure mechanics. Granted, Lost is supposed to be in our world. But I'm not sure the island is . . . at least not in the sense that, say, Hawaii is.

We will need an explanation of the smoke monster (besides, "

Spoiler

I'm a who"

). But an explanation of the ankh? Nah. Ash ring doesn't bother me at this point, either.

[I'm Murrin]

Writing this before reading everyone else's comments, which is probably a bit backward but I like to get my own thoughts out first.

Spoiler

Flight 815 with some of the island's influence removed from the passengers' lives:
- One bottle of Vodka, not two. We know immediately that this isn't going to happen the same wasy, because he won't be able to pull the spare bottle out of his jacket pocket.
- Hurley is not cursed, but still won the lottery. I wonder if we'll learn the numbers have changed.
- Charlie chose swallow instead of flush.
- Shannon didn't con Boone, and they didn't sleep together.
- Interesting one: The marshall's case was stored in the overhead compartment, when originally it was taken from him in Sydney and stored in the cabin crew seats.


Jacob and Hurley:
- Jacob sent Hurley back, with the guitar case, with the letter, in a series of events which led to the Others discovering of Jacob's death far sooner than they ever could have otherwise. The Others at the Temple knew Jacob was dead before Richard even found out. He gave them an opportunity to defend themselves that they never would have had, and he set it in motion about a week before he died.

Bits and pieces:
- "It worked." Juliet's post mortem message tells us that both of these realities exist and are happening.
- Confirmation that Jacob's killer is the monster.
- Jacob's death removed the healing powers of the pool in the Temple. This is why it was cloudy. I think staying in the water longer than the timer is what made Richard immortal - or perhaps dying in it like Sayid has.
- Jack accepted that he couldn't save Sayid, and let Hurley take him to the Temple. Jack back in season 1 would never have done that. Evidence of how much he's grown.

Finally:
- "Nothing's irreversible." The big clue-in of the episode, this is what they are telling you about what is about to happen: Nothing is irreversible. Not injuries, not time, not even death.

I wonder how Richard Alpert's actor feels about spending the last four episodes of Lost doing nothing but be confused and shocked.


Edit: and after reading:

Spoiler

1) Luci, you didn't see Claire on the plane because it would have been less surprising when she appeared in the cab. They allow you to forget about her so that that moment works better.


2) There's no evidence for a second smoke monster. The one that Ben saw wasn't in the temple, it was under the temple perimeter, about half a mile away. Locke was able to go to the same place without any problem, he was right above the room Ben was in (well, until he went away to appear as the monster and Alex then came back).

Everything Locke said and did after the crash of Ajira 316 was an act in order to get himself where he was at the end of S5, inside Jacob's room with Jacob dead. His pretending not to know about Ben's experience was part of the manipulation - and pretty much exactly what Ben usually does to other people.

[wayfriend]

Pretty astute, Murrin. Glad you made it finally.

You have to admit, the season opener was immensly satisfying.

[I'm Murrin]

I have to add;

Spoiler

"I'm not a what, I'm a who" is a blatant stall tactic by the writers in order to preserve the mystery a little longer. We're going to get up close and personal between Locke and Richard next episodes I think.

And while my mind's still churning through this stuff:

Spoiler

What if one of the major points of the double timeline turns out to be a (kinda predictable) "changing things didn't really make anyone's lives better" scenario? Hell, if the writers really want to be unoriginal, the new timeline could have the people find out about events playing out differently than they were supposed to and doing something to change things back.

[Kil Tyme]

Spoiler

It could also be that some of the losties in the new timeline will start jumping around in time again: Desond was there one minute then gone and no one else but Jack noticed. Not jumping; more like "slipping" from one alternate universe to the next...quietly; no boom and flash show.

Re the underwater island; I think that was just the view of the camera for the audience; no characters POV. But more importantly, if the island blew-up, then why were the houses still erect since they would have been blown up with everything else?

The Ankh was also the symbol the huge statue was carrying at one point, but why inside still illudes; Jacob must have "seen" that Sayid was going to be hurting before the fact to get that note in there, so then why not have seen the loophole before hand, which I answer that he did and prepared for it a la Obi Wan style.

Lastly, Kate's detective; that actor has to hate that character...always getting beat up by Kate no matter what timeline.

[Zarathustra]

I found an interesting site. Hereyou can look at any location on earth and immediately see the opposite spot on the globe. It turns out that where Ben and Locke (and the polar bear) appeared after turning the wheel, Tunisia, is exactly the opposite of a position in the Pacific east of New Zealand . . . kind of like where you'd be if your flight from Sydney to Australia was 1000 miles off course.

We know the island moves. Why would Ben and Locke appear in the same spot? Well, I don't believe they did, exactly. Widmore had a line of cameras--a line, not an entire area covered--to spot where Locke would appear. Obviously he knows a thing or two about how the island moves. I wonder why he can't go back?

[I'm Murrin]

Everything/one so far has appeared in Tunisia, while the map in the Lamp Post showed places marked in a lot of different parts of the world.

Was it a line of cameras? When I originally watched that episode I thought it was a line of posts just to relay the line from the end camera, but I may not having been looking closely enough.

[wayfriend]

Spoiler

Desmond didn't disappear, he had to go back to his seat; he moved to another for a while because of a snoring man.

And, Murrin,

Spoiler

The double-timeline plot you describe was also done in an Orson Scott Card book, basically. (The book was Pastwatch.) Someone changes a timeline, and then a bunch of desperate people from an alternate reality start popping up and going "change it back! change it back!"

[Zarathustra]

This spoiler applies to anyone who hasn't watched Jimmy Kimmel the night of the premiere, but has watched the Lost premiere.

Spoiler

Cuse and Lindelof said that Desmond disappearing wasn't a coincidence, according to Kimmel's criteria of answering either "coincidence" or "not coincidence." However, during the course of this informal interview, they became confused about whether the opposite of coincidence was "signficant" or "fate." So I think this means that there was a significant, non-mundane reason for Desmond to disappear.

Okay, this is a spoiler for just those who have seen the premiere (confused yet?)

Spoiler

I think he's jumping through time like we've seen him do before. In fact, I believe that he didn't merely go back in time when he turned the key, I think he jumped into an alternate timeline that was very close to his original timeline. If he went back to the past, then he would have seen himself, met himself. He wouldn't have been himself.

Or maybe not. Just a hunch.

[I'm Murrin]

Spoiler

Re: Desmond, I had felt since the great episode "The Constant" that he had suffered something similar to Faraday's experiments of sending a person's mind back in time within their own body (which we see causing things like the mouse that knew a maze without ever learning it).

On top of this, though, I think Faraday's action in S5 with Desmond suggests that he is able to encounter paradox without consequence - the experience is simply incorporated into his current-time memories rather than causing a split in realities.

...Which I guess could point toward a single Desmond who is aware of both realities at once. Just a stray thought.

On another topic:

Spoiler

The Lost wiki has some stuff that I hadn't spotted on the differences between timelines. Significantly, Jack was sitting in row 24, instead of 23.
The Marshall's case was not only in the wrong place, but Kate doesn't try to get the toy plane out of it when she escapes.

[Orlion]

Spoiler

Re: Desmond, I had felt since the great episode "The Constant" that he had suffered something similar to Faraday's experiments of sending a person's mind back in time within their own body (which we see causing things like the mouse that knew a maze without ever learning it).

On top of this, though, I think Faraday's action in S5 with Desmond suggests that he is able to encounter paradox without consequence - the experience is simply incorporated into his current-time memories rather than causing a split in realities.

...Which I guess could point toward a single Desmond who is aware of both realities at once. Just a stray thought.

On another topic:

Spoiler

The Lost wiki has some stuff that I hadn't spotted on the differences between timelines. Significantly, Jack was sitting in row 24, instead of 23.
The Marshall's case was not only in the wrong place, but Kate doesn't try to get the toy plane out of it when she escapes.

Spoiler

As far as Kate's toy plane... it was buried in the lunch box that Jacob bought for her... in this timeline, there'd be no Jacob, no lunch box, perhaps no time capsule.

[Kil Tyme]

Yes, but sometimes I wonder if some of that is just due to some continunity person doing their job poorly; like when Juliet is in the shaft and sometimes there is blood on her lips and sometimes not. I think the toy plane thing is a valid and designed difference, at least.

[Harbinger]

Please, please, please kill Kate off. God, she is so annoying. Not only is she the worst character, she's the worst actor. I have disliked her since season one. Lost would be a much better show without her.

[sindatur]

Please, please, please kill Kate off. God, she is so annoying. Not only is she the worst character, she's the worst actor. I have disliked her since season one. Lost would be a much better show without her.

Jack was originally supposed to be a bigger actor (Clooney?) and not survive the Pilot, and Kate was meant to be the leader. Then when they got ahold of Matt Fox, they wanted Jack to live and they decided to make Jack and Kate the leaders

[I'm Murrin]

Kate-the-leader also originally had Rose's story: her husband had gone to the toilet in the back of the plane and was missing.

The decision with Jack was more to do with people saying to them that they'd built up so much audience investment in him that they couldn't kill him off 2/3rds of the way through than just the actor.

[Kil Tyme]

What you guys are stating goes against what I heard about the show having a beginning and and end from the start. Suggesting that characters development, and in Jack's case a commuted death sentance, means that they made some major stuff up as they went along. And gawd, having a bobble-his-head-everytime-he-talks Clooney would have made me stop watching the show.

[Vraith]

Please, please, please kill Kate off. God, she is so annoying. Not only is she the worst character, she's the worst actor. I have disliked her since season one. Lost would be a much better show without her.

Completely disagree...her char. is far from my favorite story line, but at least 1/2 the women and 3/4 of the men are worse actors.

[I'm Murrin]

What you guys are stating goes against what I heard about the show having a beginning and and end from the start. Suggesting that characters development, and in Jack's case a commuted death sentance, means that they made some major stuff up as they went along. And gawd, having a bobble-his-head-everytime-he-talks Clooney would have made me stop watching the show.

The overarchnig plot structure of crash, hatch, others, boat, leaving the island, coming back, time travel, etc, was presumably all planned out, but the characters and their arcs were developed as they went along. They didn't even have all the characters worked out until a couple days beofre they started shooting the pilot (the characters were built around the actors they got).