Lost--Season 6 - Spoilers Abound!!!

[Rigel]

As far as various characters lying...

I prefer to presume that people are telling the truth, until we're given reason to believe they're lying.

Why? Because at some point, you could stop trusting anything that people say, and call it all lies.

So if we're given reason to believe a character is lying (through exposition such as flashbacks, or testimony from other characters), then I'll accept that someone is lying. Ben, for instance, has lied so often in the past that we know not to trust him.

Spoiler

The unLocke, as far as we know, has only lied about one thing... being that he masqueraded as Locke. Other than that, he appears to have been completely truthful, as does Jacob.

For that matter, other than the fact that the unLocke killed Jacob's bodyguards, we really don't have evidence about who is "good" and who is "bad", or what their underlying motivations are. At the end of the day, we might end up sympathizing more with Smokey.

[I'm Murrin]

Spoiler

I haven't watched again to check, but I don't recall Locke actually saying he was unaware of what had happened to Ben. He only implied it through his tone.

The false Locke pretty much engages in most of his conversations through leading questions rather than statements. He lets the other person make assumptions and reveal things.


I do think there's something there about the relationship between Jacob, Loophole, and the Others. The Others take orders from Jacob, but go to the monster for judgement. They seem to treat the monster as an embodiment of the Island's judgement - which is the role we've often seen it cast in.

[Cagliostro]

Spoiler

My biggest question is, would setting off an a-bomb on an island that size cause it to sink while thinks like the foot of the statue and houses remain intact?

[I'm Murrin]

Spoiler

I have a suspicion that no-island reality is the one where the bomb didn't go off. I.e., nothing occured to counteract the release of EM energy in the Incident.

It creates an interesting paradox where if they hadn't crashed on the island they never would have crashed on the island.

[Orlion]

Spoiler

My biggest question is, would setting off an a-bomb on an island that size cause it to sink while thinks like the foot of the statue and houses remain intact?

Spoiler

I could be that the island where the crash happened is due to the bomb counteracting the electromagnetic forces as Faraday planned, while in the other reality, this failed and the electromagnetic forces (somehow) sunk the island.

[Zarathustra]

Spoiler

Why would Jacob healing Locke be a contiuity error? In the alternate timeline, maybe Locke gets paralyzed in a way other than falling out a window. Or maybe it happens from lower window so that it's not life-threatening. Or maybe he would have survived even if Jacob hadn't been there.

Spoiler

But if the only difference between the original timeline and the alternate one is that the island sunk beneath the ocean long before Oceanic 815, then why would that affect Locke's accident - which, as we know, was caused by his father, who had no connection to the Island whatsoever? I would tend to believe either that Locke's survival means that alternate Jacob still revived him, or that the accident we saw in "The Incident" didn't kill him and he was only unconscious when Jacob touched him. Either way, I don't think alternate Locke is paralyzed because of different circumstances.

Spoiler

We already know that there are changes, merely from what we've seen on the plane. Jack is scared, rather than Rose. One bottle of booze, rather than two. Charlie almost suffocating. Boone/Shannon. Etc. None of these things have to do with the island sinking. Given that the writers intentionally put differences in there that weren't island related, the entire timeline for the alternate reality is in question. We can't assume that any event going back to 1977 happened the way we saw it originally.

Thus, it is possible that Jacob didn't save Locke because his fall wasn't life-threatening. Or, as you say, it's possible that Jacob saved him despite the island sinking. Given that Jacob has supernatural powers, I don't think we can conclude that natural disasters present obstacles to him.

As for the atom bomb sinking the island and leaving intact buildings . . .yes, it seems impossible. But it also seems impossible that a nuke would sink an island. Perhaps it set off a tectonic effect, which sunk the island. The force of the blast could have just been a catalyst.

Or maybe global warming is a much larger threat in the alternate timeline.

[I'm Murrin]

Spoiler

The island already moves, and time travels, so it's not too much of a stretch to think that an unusual (for the island) release of the same energy that allows it to do so could have a drastic (and unpredictable) effect on its position in time and space.

[lucimay]

Spoiler

okay the spoiler thing is driving me crazy. can we stop spoilering now?

[sindatur]

Spoiler

The island already moves, and time travels, so it's not too much of a stretch to think that an unusual (for the island) release of the same energy that allows it to do so could have a drastic (and unpredictable) effect on its position in time and space.

Spoiler

That's true, I hadn't thought about that, it could have simply rematerialezed a few feet lower in the water than it should have, or the tide could be higher than it should be

[I'm Murrin]

Season 3, Further Instructions: Boone appears to Locke in the sweat lodge. A hallucination follows in the Sydney airport where Locke is shown things representing all of the characters' situations, and learns Eko has been taken by a polar bear.

The hatch crater is seen for the first time. It looks nothing like the crater in S6.

It occurs to me that since John Locke is now dead, there's probably not much reason for the imposter to ever confirm whether he appeared to Locke as Boone at any point.

[Zarathustra]

The hatch crater is seen for the first time. It looks nothing like the crater in S6.

Yeah, I've noticed that, too. In fact, there's quite a bit of difference between s3 hatch, s5 premiere hatch (while they're time traveling), s5 finale hatch (construction site), and s6 premiere hatch (after bomb). I can't tell if it's inconsistencies with set design (unlikely), or clues. I lean toward clues, given the commentary of the s5 premiere. Cuse and Lindelof say in the commentary that they purposely wanted the characters to be at the same spot in the beginning of that season as they are at the end of the season. I think it was to show us the difference, which implies that

Spoiler

the alternate timeline isn't the only timeline which has developed changes. "It worked" might mean more than what we currently think.

[I'm Murrin]

For comparison:
Further Instructions
LA X


Still on Further Instructions: The FBI psych profilers characterised Locke as "amenable to coercion". This after a dead guy had appeared to Locke and told him what he had to do earlier in the episode. Ha. Wonder if that's intentional?

[Cagliostro]

Okay, if everyone is amenable, we could stop spoiler tags on things on the premiere episode, and start only spoiler tagging those things from the latest episode, What Kate Does.

Or should we stop spoiler tags in general?
Also, should I edit and remove the spoiler tags from the premiere to make reading easier from here on out?

[Kevin164]

Stop them completely it's just annoying to have to go over them all. Just say Spoilers in the thread's title and leave it at that.

[Akasri]

I agree - leave spoiler tags out completely. Anyone reading this thread should know to wait until they've seen the latest episode or risk getting spoiled

My question - in the alternate timeline, did Kate recognize the name Aaron when Claire told her that's what she was going to name her baby? She seemed to.

And finally Claire shows up back in the main story, but she apparently has/had a "darkness" in her. Some taint from the MiB perhaps?

[Orlion]

Stop them completely it's just annoying to have to go over them all. Just say Spoilers in the thread's title and leave it at that.

I'd say that's best... particularly because not much happened in this week's episode

[dANdeLION]

Bah, don't do anything with the spoilers. Luci got on Stevie G's case the other day and I fixed what she was complaining about, then she started in with the old "OMG I was just joking" crap.....but if you want to start taking them out anyway, wait until the episodes have aired globally, however many weeks that takes.

[Orlion]

I agree - leave spoiler tags out completely. Anyone reading this thread should know to wait until they've seen the latest episode or risk getting spoiled

My question - in the alternate timeline, did Kate recognize the name Aaron when Claire told her that's what she was going to name her baby? She seemed to.

And finally Claire shows up back in the main story, but she apparently has/had a "darkness" in her. Some taint from the MiB perhaps?

Spoiler

I presume the writers are teasing us with a "destiny" concept with Aaron (as in, it's his destiny to be called Aaron). I know Claire may have been desperate and all, but get in the taxi with someone that just recently had her at gunpoint? Come on!

I think that there's suppose to be a connection between Claire, Sayid, and Rousseu. I presume that the taint would be from the MiB, since the test for Sayid included ash, electricity (like the fence that surrounded the barracks), and the whole branding thing doesn't make any sense... I guess we'll have to wait until answers to questions we didn't have all ready are given

[sindatur]

I agree - leave spoiler tags out completely. Anyone reading this thread should know to wait until they've seen the latest episode or risk getting spoiled

My question - in the alternate timeline, did Kate recognize the name Aaron when Claire told her that's what she was going to name her baby? She seemed to.

And finally Claire shows up back in the main story, but she apparently has/had a "darkness" in her. Some taint from the MiB perhaps?

Spoiler

I presume the writers are teasing us with a "destiny" concept with Aaron (as in, it's his destiny to be called Aaron). I know Claire may have been desperate and all, but get in the taxi with someone that just recently had her at gunpoint? Come on!

I think that there's suppose to be a connection between Claire, Sayid, and Rousseu. I presume that the taint would be from the MiB, since the test for Sayid included ash, electricity (like the fence that surrounded the barracks), and the whole branding thing doesn't make any sense... I guess we'll have to wait until answers to questions we didn't have all ready are given

Spoiler

Thing is, Sayid didn't have an adverse reaction to the ash, it repels Smokey. Also, I don't recall anything different about Sayid's reaction to the shocking by Rousseau in S1 Solitary versus his reaction to it in this episode when determined to be "infected". Glad they brought infection back up, I never belied it was an actual illness like the flu or a cold.

[Xar]

I agree - leave spoiler tags out completely. Anyone reading this thread should know to wait until they've seen the latest episode or risk getting spoiled

My question - in the alternate timeline, did Kate recognize the name Aaron when Claire told her that's what she was going to name her baby? She seemed to.

And finally Claire shows up back in the main story, but she apparently has/had a "darkness" in her. Some taint from the MiB perhaps?

Spoiler

I presume the writers are teasing us with a "destiny" concept with Aaron (as in, it's his destiny to be called Aaron). I know Claire may have been desperate and all, but get in the taxi with someone that just recently had her at gunpoint? Come on!

I think that there's suppose to be a connection between Claire, Sayid, and Rousseu. I presume that the taint would be from the MiB, since the test for Sayid included ash, electricity (like the fence that surrounded the barracks), and the whole branding thing doesn't make any sense... I guess we'll have to wait until answers to questions we didn't have all ready are given

Just a minor point, but the fence around the barracks wasn't electricity-based, it was a sonic fence