Lost--Season 6 - Spoilers Abound!!!

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Post by I'm Murrin »

Season 3, The Cost of Living: This is the big one. ;)

At the funeral of one of their own, the Others dress in white, with shirts that are similar to Jacob's.

Mr. Eko, waking from his fever, sees Yemi, who tells him it is time to confess, and be judged.

Wandering through the jungle later, we see a flash of the black smoke in the background shortly before a number of figures - people who Eko caused the deaths of - appear, the last one, his altar boy, telling him again to confess.

When Eko stops to drink at a river, the smoke rears up behind him... then flees when he turns to face it. John Locke emerges from the woods moments later, followed by the whole group from the camp.

Locke tells Eko that what he saw (back in season 1, in Walkabout) was a very bright light, "it was beautiful". Seems he saw something very different from Eko's black smoke.

Yemi's body has vanished from the plane.

Yemi appears and leads Eko into the jungle. He asks if Eko is ready, and is answered yes. When Eko holds out the cross, Yemi touches it. Eko explains that he does not want forgiveness and does not feel that he has sinned, only done what was necessary to survive. Yemi looks angry. "You speak to me as if I were your brother." Eko, who knows now that it isn't Yemi, chases after him. The black smoke appears, and beats Eko.

Before he dies, he tells Locke something. Locke relays the message to Sayid as "we're next".

So, to recap: The Cost of Living is the first episode in which we see the smoke in its role as judge. It is also - unless you count the visions of Christian in the Pilot - the first time we see the monster take the form of a dead person (all previous visions were in dreams or hallucinations). I'm surprised the smoke didn't get credited as a guest star, it was so prominent in this episode. ;)

What can we tell from its behaviour here? As soon as he learned that Eko did not feel as though he required forgiveness, he stopped pretending to be his brother. So repentance may have some importance here. Perhaps this is just his disdain for the people who bring destruction to the island showing, though.

He did not drop the form of Yemi until he was out of sight, which seems to be a pattern. and of course we see Yemi touching objects but not people. It almost suggests that the only contact he can have with normal humans is while in the form of the black smoke (perhaps Richard's condition makes him an exception?).
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Post by Orlion »

It's also interesting that smokey (or an accomplish?) always tries to get rid of the bodies of those it impersonates. I don't know how it messed up with Locke. Also, it certainly doesn't want people to think that smokey is anything more then, say, a security system or even a judge of sort.

It may not like to touch people because its form may not be perfect. If one were to touch Smokey in one of its dead forms, the person may be able to know immediately that he is not human, reanimated or otherwise.
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Post by I'm Murrin »

Funy thing in the next episode, seemingly a nod by the writers: At Eko's funeral, Locke says he'd like to think Eko died for a reason, and he just hopes it's not long before they find out what that reason is. Heh. Maybe this means the writers will feel like answering that question in S6?

And yes, it is odd that Christian and Yemi's bodies both vanished, but Locke's did not.

Edit: I just realised, didn't fake-Alex pin Ben against a wall?
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Post by sindatur »

Smokey as Alex smashed Ben against the wall and held him there, and I'm pretty sure Smokey-Locke put his arm around Ben didn't he?
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Post by I'm Murrin »

Probably also grabbed Ben's arm when pulling him back out of the hole in the tunnel. I'll have to watch that episode again.
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Post by Ki »

I know what Kate does...she sucks! :lol: Josh Holloway was excellent, I thought. Sawyer as a character and Josh Holloway as an actor when you look back from the very first Lost episode compared to this week's episode and you can't help but to notice the difference. With Kate, there's no difference. No difference in the actress. No difference in the character.

I wondered if anyone else noticed something from last week's episode and I don't know if it means anything or not, but when John Locke knocked out Richard Alpert and put Richard on his back and right before that said to him, "It's good to see you out of those chains." I couldn't help but to be reminded of the episode when Locke had to kill his own father and place him on his back. And that his father was in chains in the Black Rock. Did anyone else think that too? (I know Richard's not dead, just overthinking it, I'm sure). :lol:
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Post by Orlion »

Ki wrote: just overthinking it, I'm sure). :lol:
You and everyone else... not much else to do until next week's episode... the recent one doesn't have a lot we can talk about... ooo, Claire's still alive? Sayid isn't Jacob? Kate's on the island to look for Claire? Big, f-ing, deal... like we didn't know all that anyway.... way to answer questions that have all ready answered....*sigh*.... just a little frustrated is all...

But I agree, Ki, Sawyer was excellent in this episode.
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Post by Xar »

sindatur wrote:Smokey as Alex smashed Ben against the wall and held him there, and I'm pretty sure Smokey-Locke put his arm around Ben didn't he?
If Dogen is right and Claire was "claimed", we can assume by his actions that this "claiming" is not something that Jacob's people find desirable. Therefore, it is more likely to be connected with the MIB. If that is the case, then the disheveled Christian we saw in the cabin together with Claire when Locke sought advice there is more than likely to be the MIB as well, and we know he even touched and held the infant Aaron (Claire woke up in the middle of the night and saw him holding the baby). He is definitely corporeal in his "disguises" (and apparently, the baby didn't recognize him as a danger, since he was quiet in his arms).

A friend suggested that this "sickness" may have to do with people who die when they aren't supposed to; like Claire (who may have "died" when Widmore's people destroyed her house - see Miles's glance at her when Sawyer "rescued" her and she seemed alive and well), or Sayid (who died in the pool). If MIB represents destiny, it would make sense that he is tied to the "sickness" - the concept of "not being supposed to die" has no meaning if there is no destiny.
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Post by Cagliostro »

Ki wrote: I wondered if anyone else noticed something from last week's episode and I don't know if it means anything or not, but when John Locke knocked out Richard Alpert and put Richard on his back and right before that said to him, "It's good to see you out of those chains." I couldn't help but to be reminded of the episode when Locke had to kill his own father and place him on his back. And that his father was in chains in the Black Rock. Did anyone else think that too? (I know Richard's not dead, just overthinking it, I'm sure). :lol:
Yeah, I've been figuring Richard was on the Black Rock initially, and that Jacob and the MIB are about to meet him at the beginning of the season 5 closer. That line just kinda confirmed it for me, though it made me think rather than being one of the slavers as I initially thought, Richard was probably one of the slaves.
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Post by I'm Murrin »

Do we know whose episode the next will be? I think at this point I'd really like it to be Richard's. (Are we going to have flashbacks in this series? They almost seem necessary if Richard and Ilana are joining the main cast.)
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Post by Orlion »

Murrin wrote:Do we know whose episode the next will be? I think at this point I'd really like it to be Richard's. (Are we going to have flashbacks in this series? They almost seem necessary if Richard and Ilana are joining the main cast.)
Nope, any back story that we have will only be by word and inferred by the flash-sideways for these characters. It might be interesting to see what Ilana's life would be like without the influence of Jacob... I doubt Richard exists in the other timeline (though if he got off the island before it sank, that would be the perfect means to explain what happened...yeah....)
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Post by Cagliostro »

This, from the Tail Section:
It seems next week’s Lost will be Locke-centric, judging from the new clip ABC posted. Remember, Oceanic 815 landed safely, which means he’s still stuck on a wheelchair, working for that box company, and in the hot seat for that Australian trip…
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Post by I'm Murrin »

It seems like season three is where everything that leads into the later seasons really came out.

Flashes Before Your Eyes: Desmond's story. Turning the key caused him to flash back into his own past, where he almost changes his history and marries Penny. But Eloise Hawking stops him. She seems to know things about events that I wouldn't have expeced just from reading the notebook, like the man with red shoes who dies - in this episode she seems to be pitched as someone in a similar state to Desmond, and who has attempted to change history unsuccessfully. But her explanations seem to fit well with the way she pushed Daniel along his course in the S5 flashbacks.

I hadn't fully realised before, I don't think, but Desmond doesn't see the future. He lives it, then flashes backward, and changes things. We see it as visions of the future because we see the past-Desmond as he's living it.

Question: How does the idea of the universe "course-correcting", making sure things happen as they were supposed to, fit with the results of the Incident, and the creation of the sideways universe?
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Post by sindatur »

Paradoxes created by trying to force the Universe to go a different direction?
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Post by I'm Murrin »

Season 3, One of Us: Juliet's second episode. We learn that pregnant women on the island all die. We learn that nobody on the island has ever had cancer, and Ben tells Juliet that Jacob will personally see to it that her sister's cancer will be cured, even though she is in Miami not on the island. And the fact of it being cured is proven later in the episode when we see her sister still alive.

We're also presented here with the mystery of why Ben is the only person who has gotten cancer there. It almost, given later knowledge, suggests that Jacob or the island wanted to get rid of him. Which makes sense, when you consider that almost all of the bad things that the Others have done were because of Ben's agendas. Other than Ethan taking matters into his own hands with Claire in season 1, the Others have not done much to show themselves as bad guys.
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Post by Rigel »

Murrin wrote: We're also presented here with the mystery of why Ben is the only person who has gotten cancer there.
I assumed it was precisely as Ben said... the day after he learned he had cancer growing on his spine, a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky. Sounds like providence to me... and it's not something that can be put down to Ben's machinations, as he neither had the ability to give himself cancer, or to make Jack's plane fall.
Murrin wrote: almost all of the bad things that the Others have done were because of Ben's agendas. Other than Ethan taking matters into his own hands with Claire in season 1, the Others have not done much to show themselves as bad guys.
Umm... what about all the killing and kidnapping, other than what Ethan did? How about "The Other 40 Days," when the Others are shown dragging off members of the tail section, and killing those who fought them?

Not to mention taking Walt off the raft, shooting Sawyer, and leaving Jin and Michael stranded in the water?

Let's face it, if it weren't for Juliet and Richard, I would still be under the impression that all of the Others are completely evil servants of Nemesis.
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Post by I'm Murrin »

I'm not saying Ben getting cancer was due to his machinations... I'm saying it was a consequence of not doing what the island or Jacob wants him to do. We've already established that there's some sense of good and evil, some system of judgement and worthiness in place with the island and Jacob.


Didn't Sawyer shoot first? And blowing up the raft prevented pursuit.


Yeah, I forgot Goodwin - but as for them dragging people off, the only killing was when one of the people on the list - Eko - fought back and killed two of them. Most of the time the Others took people without even being noticed. And we've seen what happens to the people they take - they're integrated into their community and looked after.
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Post by Rigel »

Sounds like a case of Stockholm syndrome to me... they're still kidnapping, without any explanation to those left behind.
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Post by Xar »

Murrin wrote:I'm not saying Ben getting cancer was due to his machinations... I'm saying it was a consequence of not doing what the island or Jacob wants him to do. We've already established that there's some sense of good and evil, some system of judgement and worthiness in place with the island and Jacob.


Didn't Sawyer shoot first? And blowing up the raft prevented pursuit.


Yeah, I forgot Goodwin - but as for them dragging people off, the only killing was when one of the people on the list - Eko - fought back and killed two of them. Most of the time the Others took people without even being noticed. And we've seen what happens to the people they take - they're integrated into their community and looked after.
Here's a thought... we know that Oceanic 815 crashed because Desmond didn't push the button in time that day; however, it is also true that it is a surprising coincidence that a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky two days after Ben had discovered his cancer.

So... what if Ben's cancer was caused by the MIB, and not Jacob? MIB seems big on destiny - so that would fit as Ben himself stated the whole thing reeked of "providence"- and the cancer was a great blow to Ben's loyalty towards Jacob, as evidenced by how he speaks about it to Locke. Perhaps MIB caused Ben's cancer, knowing it could/would be taken care of, in order to weaken Ben's loyalty and make him susceptible to manipulation. We know that MIB was able to develop a very complex plan involving the manipulation of many people throughout a long time frame in order to kill Jacob, so it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine MIB knew who would be on the plane - and even if he didn't, he could always cause the cancer to regress or stop using another deception, while still making it appear like Jacob was out to kill Ben...
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Post by sindatur »

And let's not forget Rose being cured by the island. (Was it ever defined unmistakenly to be cancer, or are we still just left assuming it was cancer)

Rigel, although the Others were kidnapping, Murrin is right, most of the time The Others were indeed less violent than the 815 survivors (Yes the Others started it, and you could say they deserved it since the 815ers were simply defending themselves, however...)
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