Recalled another moment from the episode, when Ilana said that the other guy is stuck in Locke's form, and it really does seem like deliberate skipping around the actual answers. Did it not seem unusual to anyone else that none of the people there with her asked why? Ben just accepts her answer when she says he's "stuck this way" and doesn't say anything more.
When the other guy answered "what are you" with "I'm a who" in the first episode, that was clever dodging the question. The moment in this episode was just ignoring the question exists.
Lost--Season 6 - Spoilers Abound!!!
Moderators: Cagliostro, sgt.null
-
I'm Murrin
- Are you?
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
- Location: North East, UK
- Contact:
-
Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19842
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1 time
Murrin, you're right. They are intentionally trickling out the answers. They're manipulating us. The question is, are they doing it in a way that's true to the characters? I think so. Ben plays his cards close to his chest. He's not one to willingly expose his ignorance. And, who knows, maybe he understands why MIB can't change forms.
I thought Sawyer treated "Locke's" withholding answers with proper suspicion and impatience. He was about to shoot him at one moment. He clearly didn't believe the "what kid" comment, but let it go because he knew "Locke" wouldn't elaborate (and probably didn't really care). And when "Locke" showed surprise in Sawyer's apparent lack of shock over his claim to be dead, Sawyer's answer was right in character: "I don't care if you're dead, or time traveling, or the Ghost of Christmas Future. I only care about my whiskey."
As long as the writers keep this intentional trickle in-character, I buy it.
I thought Sawyer treated "Locke's" withholding answers with proper suspicion and impatience. He was about to shoot him at one moment. He clearly didn't believe the "what kid" comment, but let it go because he knew "Locke" wouldn't elaborate (and probably didn't really care). And when "Locke" showed surprise in Sawyer's apparent lack of shock over his claim to be dead, Sawyer's answer was right in character: "I don't care if you're dead, or time traveling, or the Ghost of Christmas Future. I only care about my whiskey."
As long as the writers keep this intentional trickle in-character, I buy it.
Success will be my revenge -- DJT
boy oh boy. that look in sawyer's eye when he said "hell yes!" *shiver*
ruh ro. but of course this makes sense if we have already decided that jacob is "good" and fake locke is "bad".
because sawyer is the quintessential badboy idden he.
i haven't decided yet who is "good" and who is "bad".
because fake locke made a very good point about free will.
i was glad however that as fake locke went through the names
they showed those little jacob moments so i could remember the
when and wheres of it.
but i'm really bothered by fake locke's manipulation (if thats what it was
and was NOT the truth) of sawyer. the poor guy's been jerked around
quite enough i think.
i really loved the whole alternate locke side-flash. substitute locke.
thats sooooo freakin funny. and sweet. that he's teaching i mean.
because he is a good teacher. that was evident from the beginning
when he was teaching walt to play backgammon.
and i just love locke's face. that guy was such a perfect casting choice.
i was glad to see peg not dead too. er...what her name? helen? yeah
helen. she'll always be peg to me!
but back to the jacob and fake locke thing...really, have we seriously
defined them as jacob goodguy and fake lock badguy?
because i did think he made quite a good argument.
i mean, who the hell WOULDN'T want to go the hell HOME?
and trapped is trapped. and thats NOT good.
i mean, good doesn't trap you does it?
or am i just being simple-minded?
ruh ro. but of course this makes sense if we have already decided that jacob is "good" and fake locke is "bad".
because sawyer is the quintessential badboy idden he.
i haven't decided yet who is "good" and who is "bad".
because fake locke made a very good point about free will.
i was glad however that as fake locke went through the names
they showed those little jacob moments so i could remember the
when and wheres of it.
but i'm really bothered by fake locke's manipulation (if thats what it was
and was NOT the truth) of sawyer. the poor guy's been jerked around
quite enough i think.
i really loved the whole alternate locke side-flash. substitute locke.
thats sooooo freakin funny. and sweet. that he's teaching i mean.
because he is a good teacher. that was evident from the beginning
when he was teaching walt to play backgammon.
and i just love locke's face. that guy was such a perfect casting choice.
i was glad to see peg not dead too. er...what her name? helen? yeah
helen. she'll always be peg to me!
but back to the jacob and fake locke thing...really, have we seriously
defined them as jacob goodguy and fake lock badguy?
because i did think he made quite a good argument.
i mean, who the hell WOULDN'T want to go the hell HOME?
and trapped is trapped. and thats NOT good.
i mean, good doesn't trap you does it?
or am i just being simple-minded?
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
-
Orlion
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 6666
- Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:30 am
- Location: Getting there...
- Been thanked: 1 time
We don't know why it is that he is trapped there, nor what would happen if he escaped... he might break Time or somethingbut back to the jacob and fake locke thing...really, have we seriously
defined them as jacob goodguy and fake lock badguy?
because i did think he made quite a good argument.
i mean, who the hell WOULDN'T want to go the hell HOME?
and trapped is trapped. and thats NOT good.
i mean, good doesn't trap you does it?
or am i just being simple-minded?
We also know that he wants to kill Sawyer and Co., probably because anyone of them could prevent his escape.This also clarifies the other Other's statement that if Sayid died, they were screwed.
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Lucimay, yes, we are led to believe that Jacob is the good guy and Fake Locke is the bad guy, but, absolutely, the writers could pull a switcheroo on us, so, yea, not a good idea to get sold on who's good and who's not. Ben for instance, we've been on a roller coaster ride of Good and Evil (good guy/bad guy) and I think the jury's still out. Yes, he's a self serving piece of work, and wouldn't know the truth if it bit him on the ankle, but, is he serving the greater good, or not? (And does he know he's doing so? How much does he really know about what's going on?)
myself i don't think ben knows SQUAT about what's going on.
i think he's absolutely as much in the dark as the rest of the crew.
i think he THOUGHT he knew what was going on, but i don't think
he ever really did know.
and yeah i've always thought he could go either way.
i loved his little rant in the teacher's lounge about the coffee
filters! that is one of my very own pet peeves!
i burst out laughing when he said "...and...i'm very sorry i murdered you!"
and the funniest part of that was i thought he was totally sincere!
i think he's absolutely as much in the dark as the rest of the crew.
i think he THOUGHT he knew what was going on, but i don't think
he ever really did know.
and yeah i've always thought he could go either way.
i loved his little rant in the teacher's lounge about the coffee
filters!
that is one of my very own pet peeves! i burst out laughing when he said "...and...i'm very sorry i murdered you!"
and the funniest part of that was i thought he was totally sincere! you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
A few points that came to mind during the episode:
1) All the names on Jacob's wall, with the possible exception of "Littleton" and "Kwon", are names of male characters. "Kwon" and "Littleton" aren't necessarily exceptions either - they could refer to Jin and Aaron, respectively, rather than Sun and Claire.
2) If "Kwon" means Jin, all the five characters whose names aren't crossed out on Jacob's Wall (Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Sawyer and Jin) were in 1977 during the second half of last season. This leads me to suppose that Jack, Kate and Hurley didn't "accidentally" get transported back in time, but this occurred for a reason, presumably through Jacob's intervention. Locke was dead at the time, so his body remained in 2007. The latter point would mean that 1) Jacob knew Locke was dead (and didn't have the time to go to the cave and cross out his name); or 2) Jacob sent back in time all the "substitutes" in a generic way, and Locke's body didn't go because it was dead (so Jacob didn't know he was dead); or 3) Locke's name still not crossed in the cave might imply he somehow will have a part to play even though he's dead (maybe through his alternate self?).
3) What about Kate? We know she was also visited and touched by Jacob as a child. If, as MIB suggests, those visits were meant to bring those people to the Island in the future, and furthermore they only occurred in the case of potential substitutes... is Kate Jacob's "ace in the hole" - so that even if MIB tracked down all the male characters with the intention of not permitting a substitution (since their names are on the wall), Kate - being a woman - would be overlooked by MIB and would potentially become Jacob's replacement?
4) What was the significance of the scale with two stones, and of the "inside joke" MIB referred to when he threw the white stone into the sea? At first I thought he did it because the white stone represented Jacob's influence and he threw it away to symbolize Jacob's end, but I'm thinking it could also be the stone represented MIB and his throwing it into the ocean was an "inside joke" referring to his desire to be free.
5) How does this "taking over Jacob's job" work? Is there an investiture involved, perhaps a bath in the healing spring, or does the last person whose name is not crossed on Jacob's wall automatically get the job? MIB suggested it's possible to refuse or deliberately accept the job, implying that things are more complicated than simply being on the Island at the wrong time.
6) Am I the only one thinking that MIB lied to Sawyer when he said that the guardian of the Island protects it from nothing? If Jacob is the guardian of the Island and MIB is trapped on the island, could the guardian be MIB's warden? It's obvious MIB cannot simply run away, even though Jacob's dead: he needs Jacob's potential replacements (at least one) to run away with him. Perhaps because the only people who can let him out are Jacob's potential replacements - or the one who takes over Jacob's role?
6) Who is the blond-haired kid? He referred to "the rules" and told MIB he couldn't kill "him" - so either he was rebuking MIB for his part in murdering Jacob, or he was telling MIB that he cannot kill Sawyer - i.e. Jacob's potential replacements cannot be killed by MIB, at least until one of them takes over Jacob's role. This would make sense, or else MIB would have simply killed all those he could not control a long time ago - he even had Locke once, but instead of killing him outright he dragged him away...
7) Was the MIB really a normal man once, as he told Sawyer? If so, what happened to make him immortal and give him his various abilities? Was this change related to his imprisonment on the Island? Assuming he was indeed a man once, I kind of wonder whether he chose to become like this, or if he was transformed against his will (possible, given that he doesn't like being seen in monster form). Coupled with the notion he is a "defense system" (in Ben's summoning room there is a line etched in the walls saying "to summon protection", if I recall correctly) and that he is somehow related to Anubis (Temple hieroglyphics), perhaps he was chosen to become an "Anubis-like force" - i.e. a guardian of sorts with a link to the dead... fits with his powers. The fact he was facing Anubis in the hieroglyphics, on the other hand, could mean that he took these powers and then claimed to be a god and attempted to supplant Anubis (whether Anubis exists or not is immaterial at this point), and this is why he was trapped on the Island.
Ilana took Jacob's ashes and put them in a pouch. Coupled with the knowledge that apparently the position of guardian of the Island can be taken over once the previous one is dead, that made me think that maybe the ashes that keep the monster at bay are the ashes of previous guardians?
1) All the names on Jacob's wall, with the possible exception of "Littleton" and "Kwon", are names of male characters. "Kwon" and "Littleton" aren't necessarily exceptions either - they could refer to Jin and Aaron, respectively, rather than Sun and Claire.
2) If "Kwon" means Jin, all the five characters whose names aren't crossed out on Jacob's Wall (Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Sawyer and Jin) were in 1977 during the second half of last season. This leads me to suppose that Jack, Kate and Hurley didn't "accidentally" get transported back in time, but this occurred for a reason, presumably through Jacob's intervention. Locke was dead at the time, so his body remained in 2007. The latter point would mean that 1) Jacob knew Locke was dead (and didn't have the time to go to the cave and cross out his name); or 2) Jacob sent back in time all the "substitutes" in a generic way, and Locke's body didn't go because it was dead (so Jacob didn't know he was dead); or 3) Locke's name still not crossed in the cave might imply he somehow will have a part to play even though he's dead (maybe through his alternate self?).
3) What about Kate? We know she was also visited and touched by Jacob as a child. If, as MIB suggests, those visits were meant to bring those people to the Island in the future, and furthermore they only occurred in the case of potential substitutes... is Kate Jacob's "ace in the hole" - so that even if MIB tracked down all the male characters with the intention of not permitting a substitution (since their names are on the wall), Kate - being a woman - would be overlooked by MIB and would potentially become Jacob's replacement?
4) What was the significance of the scale with two stones, and of the "inside joke" MIB referred to when he threw the white stone into the sea? At first I thought he did it because the white stone represented Jacob's influence and he threw it away to symbolize Jacob's end, but I'm thinking it could also be the stone represented MIB and his throwing it into the ocean was an "inside joke" referring to his desire to be free.
5) How does this "taking over Jacob's job" work? Is there an investiture involved, perhaps a bath in the healing spring, or does the last person whose name is not crossed on Jacob's wall automatically get the job? MIB suggested it's possible to refuse or deliberately accept the job, implying that things are more complicated than simply being on the Island at the wrong time.
6) Am I the only one thinking that MIB lied to Sawyer when he said that the guardian of the Island protects it from nothing? If Jacob is the guardian of the Island and MIB is trapped on the island, could the guardian be MIB's warden? It's obvious MIB cannot simply run away, even though Jacob's dead: he needs Jacob's potential replacements (at least one) to run away with him. Perhaps because the only people who can let him out are Jacob's potential replacements - or the one who takes over Jacob's role?
6) Who is the blond-haired kid? He referred to "the rules" and told MIB he couldn't kill "him" - so either he was rebuking MIB for his part in murdering Jacob, or he was telling MIB that he cannot kill Sawyer - i.e. Jacob's potential replacements cannot be killed by MIB, at least until one of them takes over Jacob's role. This would make sense, or else MIB would have simply killed all those he could not control a long time ago - he even had Locke once, but instead of killing him outright he dragged him away...
7) Was the MIB really a normal man once, as he told Sawyer? If so, what happened to make him immortal and give him his various abilities? Was this change related to his imprisonment on the Island? Assuming he was indeed a man once, I kind of wonder whether he chose to become like this, or if he was transformed against his will (possible, given that he doesn't like being seen in monster form). Coupled with the notion he is a "defense system" (in Ben's summoning room there is a line etched in the walls saying "to summon protection", if I recall correctly) and that he is somehow related to Anubis (Temple hieroglyphics), perhaps he was chosen to become an "Anubis-like force" - i.e. a guardian of sorts with a link to the dead... fits with his powers. The fact he was facing Anubis in the hieroglyphics, on the other hand, could mean that he took these powers and then claimed to be a god and attempted to supplant Anubis (whether Anubis exists or not is immaterial at this point), and this is why he was trapped on the Island.
Ilana took Jacob's ashes and put them in a pouch. Coupled with the knowledge that apparently the position of guardian of the Island can be taken over once the previous one is dead, that made me think that maybe the ashes that keep the monster at bay are the ashes of previous guardians?-
[Syl]
- Unfettered One
- Posts: 13021
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:36 am
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 1 time
Not if you watch Sons of Anarchy. My first thought was, "Wow, Gemma looks different."lucimay wrote:she'll always be peg to me!
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
-
Cagliostro
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 9360
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:39 pm
- Location: Colorado
Very good points there Xar. And yeah...I picked up that Kate wasn't on the list either.
As far as the "good" vs. "evil" thing, I'm sure both sides will have their good points and bad points, but ultimately will be what is bad for the island/world/etc.
And I'm getting a strong Lord Foul vibe from MIB as others have pointed out. I really want Lord Foul's Bane to be the next book that shows up on the Lost reading list. It would only be fitting.
As far as the "good" vs. "evil" thing, I'm sure both sides will have their good points and bad points, but ultimately will be what is bad for the island/world/etc.
And I'm getting a strong Lord Foul vibe from MIB as others have pointed out. I really want Lord Foul's Bane to be the next book that shows up on the Lost reading list. It would only be fitting.
Life is a waste of time
Time is a waste of life
So get wasted all of the time
And you'll have the time of your life
-
I'm Murrin
- Are you?
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
- Location: North East, UK
- Contact:
It's interesting that several of the characters seem to be happier in the alternate timeline.
Locke is still with Helen, and after being fired seems ready to accept his condition. When Helen jokes about eloping she suggests inviting his father in a way that I don't think ever would have happened if they had the history we know.
Hurley, who was in a very bad place because of his obsession with the "curse", is lucky and happy.
And I think it's significant that in that timeline Claire is going to get to keep and raise Aaron.
But then there's Kate. Whose crime was a little more callous (rather than killing her stepfather when he came home drunk, she tried to blow him up at work and accidentally killed his young assistant), and who doesn't have the guilt over her boyfriend's death behind her. But then again, if her boyfriend didn't get killed, maybe it is a slightly more positive reality for her, too. We need to find out more about the differences.
Locke is still with Helen, and after being fired seems ready to accept his condition. When Helen jokes about eloping she suggests inviting his father in a way that I don't think ever would have happened if they had the history we know.
Hurley, who was in a very bad place because of his obsession with the "curse", is lucky and happy.
And I think it's significant that in that timeline Claire is going to get to keep and raise Aaron.
But then there's Kate. Whose crime was a little more callous (rather than killing her stepfather when he came home drunk, she tried to blow him up at work and accidentally killed his young assistant), and who doesn't have the guilt over her boyfriend's death behind her. But then again, if her boyfriend didn't get killed, maybe it is a slightly more positive reality for her, too. We need to find out more about the differences.
-
Cagliostro
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 9360
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:39 pm
- Location: Colorado
Charlie didn't seem happier either.
The wife read something today that was interesting - Maybe the MIB leaving the island (or whatever "going home" entails) will cause the island to sink into the ocean, and that is what has happened in the alternate timeline. I can think of a few things wrong with this theory, but it is an interesting one.
The wife read something today that was interesting - Maybe the MIB leaving the island (or whatever "going home" entails) will cause the island to sink into the ocean, and that is what has happened in the alternate timeline. I can think of a few things wrong with this theory, but it is an interesting one.
Life is a waste of time
Time is a waste of life
So get wasted all of the time
And you'll have the time of your life
-
Worm of Despite
- Lord
- Posts: 9546
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 7:46 pm
- Location: Rome, GA
- Contact:
-
Orlion
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 6666
- Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:30 am
- Location: Getting there...
- Been thanked: 1 time
I completly agree... if I see Elizabeth Mitchell in "V" before I see her in Lost againLord Foul wrote:I'm still missing Juliet's massive cans. She was good at sporting cleavage even during action scenes.
What am I saying? I own the DVDs...
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
-
[Syl]
- Unfettered One
- Posts: 13021
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:36 am
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 1 time
link, because even the url is a spoiler
Spoiler
Maggie Grace, who played Shannon on Lost, will return to the ABC drama later this season, executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse confirmed to EW.com. “We’re really excited about having her back on the show,” says Cuse, “and we have a good story for her.” The producers would not specify how many episodes she would appear in. An original cast member, Grace exited the show in season 2 when her character — the spoiled stepsister of Boone — was killed off, though she did resurface in a season 3 episode. Harold Perrineau, Cynthia Watros, and Rebecca Mader are among the other dearly departed who will guest-star in Lost’s sixth and final season.
Last edited by [Syl] on Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
-
Orlion
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 6666
- Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:30 am
- Location: Getting there...
- Been thanked: 1 time
*Sigh*.... By the way, folks, it is spoilered for a reason!Syl wrote:linkSpoiler
Maggie Grace, who played Shannon on Lost, will return to the ABC drama later this season, executive producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse confirmed to EW.com. “We’re really excited about having her back on the show,” says Cuse, “and we have a good story for her.” The producers would not specify how many episodes she would appear in. An original cast member, Grace exited the show in season 2 when her character — the spoiled stepsister of Boone — was killed off, though she did resurface in a season 3 episode. Harold Perrineau, Cynthia Watros, and Rebecca Mader are among the other dearly departed who will guest-star in Lost’s sixth and final season.
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
-
Cagliostro
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 9360
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:39 pm
- Location: Colorado
From the Blast Door Map site about the episode What Kate Does:
argh so many reasons to be frustrated by this episode, not least of all because the characters are also frustrated. the introduction of that damned pill just made my heart sink. not an interesting thing to make our beloved characters debate over for an hour. were they trying to do something like 'the button?' i can only hope that like 'the button,' patience will pay off and there will be interesting answers to what the pill is about.
it seems like jack is now just being argumentative for the sake of it. he's got a long way to climb this season if he's going to be a legitimate leader again.
one thing i've realized during this episode is that for the people who landed in 1977, only kate and jin have clear objectives. sawyer has nothing. sayid has nothing. jack has nothing. hurley has nothing. one of the inherent strengths of season 1 was that everyone was working toward the same goal, even if they were incapable of working together. the show needs to state its season goal quickly, or it's going to get tiring fast. fingers crossed for tonight.
Life is a waste of time
Time is a waste of life
So get wasted all of the time
And you'll have the time of your life
-
Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19842
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1 time
Nice valid character criticism, Cag. Without motivation, they're just set pieces. The article was correct, and I'll go even further: we have no idea what Jack, Lapedus, Richard, Ben, Miles, Hurley, Ilana, Sawyer, Claire, or Sayid want. I'll cut Sawyer some slack, because he just lost his motivation when Juliette died. And he doesn't want to be manipulated by the Others. But we do need to see some sort of plan from these people, soon. In that sense, the show is moving too slow. Good call.
Success will be my revenge -- DJT
-
[Syl]
- Unfettered One
- Posts: 13021
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:36 am
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 1 time
LOL. Sorry, Orlion. I should've been more clear.Orlion wrote:*Sigh*.... By the way, folks, it is spoilered for a reason!
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
Yea, I usually preface that kind of spoiler with "Casting Spoiler", so people can decide to what level they want to avoid spoilers. For me personally, a casting spoiler is almost never an issue, it gives you more to think about, being told what actually happens in future episodes is spoilers I try to avoid myself.Syl wrote:LOL. Sorry, Orlion. I should've been more clear.Orlion wrote:*Sigh*.... By the way, folks, it is spoilered for a reason!
-
I'm Murrin
- Are you?
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
- Location: North East, UK
- Contact:
I haven't posted about my rewatch in a while, so an update.
We're all familiar, I think, with The Man Behind the Curtain, in which Ben takes Locke to the cabin. In the commentary to the episode, they talk about the scene as if it is in fact Jacob there, talking about Jacob in the chair, Jacob's eye, and so on. In some later episode's commentary, though, there's a comment something like "may or may not be Jacob".
That episode is also Ben's flashback, and he sees and speaks to his mother, who died off the island (Richard seems to consider this significant. This is what eventually leads to him becoming leader, along with the momentum created by his orchestrating the Purge). I get the impression that Ben has not seen or heard anything unusual in quite a long time, though.
Season 4, Episode 1 - The Beginning of the End: Hurley falls behind the others walking from the beach to meet Jack's group, and stumbles to the cabin. Looking through the window, he sees a figure sitting in the rocking chair, and then a second figure puts their eye right up against the hole Hurley is looking through. He panics and runs. I think it's pretty clear there are two individuals in the cabin at this point. The commentary offers no insight, because rather than writers or producers as is usual, the season opener had commentary from Evangeline Lilly and Jorge Garcia.
It turns out later that the cabin is not where it was when Locke went there.
Episode 5, The Constant: Still my favourite Lost episode.
Overall, it's interesting watching season 4 after having seen S5. The two are inertwined in a way that none of the previous seasons have been.
Knowing, for example, that in early season 4 Daniel Faraday is recovering - under the island's influence - from severe memory damage caused by his experiments on himself provides a different context for a number of scenes, and the message in his notebook ("Should anything go wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant") has a new meaning - it seems very possible that Daniel wrote it on the day he chose to use his device on himself. And the fact that he does not remember meeting Desmond - something he even comments on, in a suggestive way - is explained by what we know of his mental state when Widmore recruited him.
But on the matter I'm most looking for, there's not much to be seen so far. The focus is on the people from the boat, and the strange properties that are being revealed about the island, and not Jacob or the monster.
We're all familiar, I think, with The Man Behind the Curtain, in which Ben takes Locke to the cabin. In the commentary to the episode, they talk about the scene as if it is in fact Jacob there, talking about Jacob in the chair, Jacob's eye, and so on. In some later episode's commentary, though, there's a comment something like "may or may not be Jacob".
That episode is also Ben's flashback, and he sees and speaks to his mother, who died off the island (Richard seems to consider this significant. This is what eventually leads to him becoming leader, along with the momentum created by his orchestrating the Purge). I get the impression that Ben has not seen or heard anything unusual in quite a long time, though.
Season 4, Episode 1 - The Beginning of the End: Hurley falls behind the others walking from the beach to meet Jack's group, and stumbles to the cabin. Looking through the window, he sees a figure sitting in the rocking chair, and then a second figure puts their eye right up against the hole Hurley is looking through. He panics and runs. I think it's pretty clear there are two individuals in the cabin at this point. The commentary offers no insight, because rather than writers or producers as is usual, the season opener had commentary from Evangeline Lilly and Jorge Garcia.
It turns out later that the cabin is not where it was when Locke went there.
Episode 5, The Constant: Still my favourite Lost episode.
Overall, it's interesting watching season 4 after having seen S5. The two are inertwined in a way that none of the previous seasons have been.
Knowing, for example, that in early season 4 Daniel Faraday is recovering - under the island's influence - from severe memory damage caused by his experiments on himself provides a different context for a number of scenes, and the message in his notebook ("Should anything go wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant") has a new meaning - it seems very possible that Daniel wrote it on the day he chose to use his device on himself. And the fact that he does not remember meeting Desmond - something he even comments on, in a suggestive way - is explained by what we know of his mental state when Widmore recruited him.
But on the matter I'm most looking for, there's not much to be seen so far. The focus is on the people from the boat, and the strange properties that are being revealed about the island, and not Jacob or the monster.