Lost--Season 6 - Spoilers Abound!!!
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Cagliostro
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Actually, a sideways Widmore does make a bit of sense - he sent an entire freighter of folks to the island to extract Ben, and failed, so he shows up to the island to...ummm....take out Smokey? Does not compute. So I like the sideways Widmore. It makes more sense.
Life is a waste of time
Time is a waste of life
So get wasted all of the time
And you'll have the time of your life
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ItisWritten
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Well, if Widmore's goal is as Ben stated, "to exploit the island," then it seems his intentions are at odds with both Jacob and Flocke. Wild card.Cagliostro wrote:Actually, a sideways Widmore does make a bit of sense - he sent an entire freighter of folks to the island to extract Ben, and failed, so he shows up to the island to...ummm....take out Smokey? Does not compute. So I like the sideways Widmore. It makes more sense.
But if the power play between Ben and Widmore was about ascension in Jacob's plan, Widmore wouldn't be on Smokey's side, simply by default.
And I'm not certain that there could be a sideways Widmore. Wasn't he on the island during the Incident? So far, the only people we have seen sideways are those that weren't on the island during the Incident, and the time traveler Losties.
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I'm Murrin
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This time Widmore presumably knows that Ben turned the wheel and left the island, so he might feel comfortable coming back knowing Ben's not in power. Perhaps we can assume he located the island by watching the movements of the Oceanic 6, and that is why it's taken three years.
On another subject, I can't wait to see Desmond in this season. I can't imagine what the creation of a divergent reality would do to his mind.
Edit: I just read an article where smoke-monster-Locke was referred to as "Smockey".
On another subject, I can't wait to see Desmond in this season. I can't imagine what the creation of a divergent reality would do to his mind.
Edit: I just read an article where smoke-monster-Locke was referred to as "Smockey".
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I'm Murrin
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Season 4, The Shape of Things to Come:
Claire's house is hit by a rocket, blows up, nothing but the timbers left standing. It just doesn't seem right that she'd survive with only a small scratch.
When she says "I'll live", and Miles responds "I wouldn't be too sure", the tone to me suggests he's referring to the situation (under siege from gun wielding mercenaries) rather than Claire specifically.
We see the entrance to the tunnels from Ben's house for the first time, and Ben summons te monster. When Locke says that he lied about not knowing what the monster is, Ben doesn't reply, changes the subject.
Ben had photographic evidence that Widmore's man was speeding away from the site of Nadia's death. We still don't know why it was done, though - if they were aiming to kill Sayid, they surely had opportunities to do so beyond just the hit and run.
Edit: Also, the body of the boat's doctor washes up with his throat slit, and when contacted by morse code on the phone, the response is "What are you talking about? The doctor's fine." That one's particularly interesting, because so far we'd seen time delays of people and things travelling to and from the island (but not radio signals, curiously), but this time we have an object arriving on the island before it left the boat.
Something Nice Back Home:
Claire makes a comment when asked how she's feeling, "at least I've stopped seeing things".
Jack gets appendicitis right when he's at his most desperate to get off the island.
Jack sees Christian briefly, then visits Hurley, who tells him about Charlie and tells him Charlie said "you're not supposed to raise him", and that someone will visit him.
Later, after he's proposed to Kate, while he's at work, he goes out into the reception and sees Christian sat in one of the chairs. He's dressed in his suit and tennis shoes. He disappears when one of Jack's colleagues walks in. Jack asks for a prescription.
Claire wakes up in the middle of the night to find Christian, dressed casually, holding Aaron. Next morning, Miles says they walked off into the jungle together. The baby is found left behind.
Seems like this was the monster recruiting - leaving the baby behind allowed him to create the later lie that manipulated Claire into doing his work. It's likely she was already claimed before he showed up, and he just came to "collect".
Claire's house is hit by a rocket, blows up, nothing but the timbers left standing. It just doesn't seem right that she'd survive with only a small scratch.
When she says "I'll live", and Miles responds "I wouldn't be too sure", the tone to me suggests he's referring to the situation (under siege from gun wielding mercenaries) rather than Claire specifically.
We see the entrance to the tunnels from Ben's house for the first time, and Ben summons te monster. When Locke says that he lied about not knowing what the monster is, Ben doesn't reply, changes the subject.
Ben had photographic evidence that Widmore's man was speeding away from the site of Nadia's death. We still don't know why it was done, though - if they were aiming to kill Sayid, they surely had opportunities to do so beyond just the hit and run.
Edit: Also, the body of the boat's doctor washes up with his throat slit, and when contacted by morse code on the phone, the response is "What are you talking about? The doctor's fine." That one's particularly interesting, because so far we'd seen time delays of people and things travelling to and from the island (but not radio signals, curiously), but this time we have an object arriving on the island before it left the boat.
Something Nice Back Home:
Claire makes a comment when asked how she's feeling, "at least I've stopped seeing things".
Jack gets appendicitis right when he's at his most desperate to get off the island.
Jack sees Christian briefly, then visits Hurley, who tells him about Charlie and tells him Charlie said "you're not supposed to raise him", and that someone will visit him.
Later, after he's proposed to Kate, while he's at work, he goes out into the reception and sees Christian sat in one of the chairs. He's dressed in his suit and tennis shoes. He disappears when one of Jack's colleagues walks in. Jack asks for a prescription.
Claire wakes up in the middle of the night to find Christian, dressed casually, holding Aaron. Next morning, Miles says they walked off into the jungle together. The baby is found left behind.
Seems like this was the monster recruiting - leaving the baby behind allowed him to create the later lie that manipulated Claire into doing his work. It's likely she was already claimed before he showed up, and he just came to "collect".
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I'm Murrin
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Cabin Fever: Very nice episode, and very relevant.
In the flashbacks, Richard Alpert visits Locke at two points in his childhood. In the second, he offers Locke a number of objects that include the compass - Richard clearly intends for young Locke to choose the compass as the item that belongs to him, to show that he's special. When he chooses the wrong object, Richard is very disappointed, almost upset. It seems to me that Richard repeatedly is given these signs of purpose, he builds up hope in whatever it is, only to be let down when it fails to happen the way he expected. He's lived a long life of disappointments.
On the island, Locke sees the ghost of Horace Goodspeed in a dream, building the Cabin. He points Locke in the right direction, claiming he'll find Jacob (Goodspeed tells Locke, "Godspeed"). At the Dharma Initiative's graves, he finds a map to Horace's cabin, and heads there.
Ben says to Hurley that the Others' "leader" ordered the deaths of the Dharma Initiative, stating that he was "not always" the leader. It seems that we know now that it must have been Widmore. Perhaps the murder of the Initiative, which had been a home to him even if he didn't like it much, might have been part of his motivation for moving against Widmore, as well as desire for the power.
At Horace's cabin, Locke goes in and finds Christian, who says he can speak on Jacob's behalf. (I think perhaps it is true he can, but that does not necessarily mean he always does so. Once again, not a direct lie.) Claire is with him, he says that Locke should not tell anyone he saw her, and that her baby is "where it needs to be". Viewing this scene with season 5/6 revelations in mind, it makes so much more sense. Christian/smokey is already maneuvering Claire into the position we find her in in S6, with the missing baby as motivation to manipulate her into her actions at the Temple. He also tells Locke now how to move the island, an important step in his plan to kill Jacob.
The question this episode poses, then, is what causes Locke's prophetic dreams, and are they aligned with Jacob or the monster? His first was an image of his mother and Boone, leading to Boone's death. The second showed Yemi, and led him to the Pearl, which may have been the intent of the first dream. The third was Boone, who told him to save Eko from the polar bear. And the fourth was Horace Goodspeed, pointing him to the cabin where we find Christian in place of Jacob.
Two of these dreams led him to places where his faith was shattered. The third gave him some small measure of faith back*. and the fourth led him directly into the plans of Mr Loophole.
*And note this: saving Mr Eko led back to the Pearl, to Eko's confrontation with Yemi, to Eko's death, Locke's revelation at Eko's grave, and a chain of events that resulted in the destruction of most of the remaining means of contact with anyone outside the island - the Flame, the submarine, and the Looking Glass.
In the flashbacks, Richard Alpert visits Locke at two points in his childhood. In the second, he offers Locke a number of objects that include the compass - Richard clearly intends for young Locke to choose the compass as the item that belongs to him, to show that he's special. When he chooses the wrong object, Richard is very disappointed, almost upset. It seems to me that Richard repeatedly is given these signs of purpose, he builds up hope in whatever it is, only to be let down when it fails to happen the way he expected. He's lived a long life of disappointments.
On the island, Locke sees the ghost of Horace Goodspeed in a dream, building the Cabin. He points Locke in the right direction, claiming he'll find Jacob (Goodspeed tells Locke, "Godspeed"). At the Dharma Initiative's graves, he finds a map to Horace's cabin, and heads there.
Ben says to Hurley that the Others' "leader" ordered the deaths of the Dharma Initiative, stating that he was "not always" the leader. It seems that we know now that it must have been Widmore. Perhaps the murder of the Initiative, which had been a home to him even if he didn't like it much, might have been part of his motivation for moving against Widmore, as well as desire for the power.
At Horace's cabin, Locke goes in and finds Christian, who says he can speak on Jacob's behalf. (I think perhaps it is true he can, but that does not necessarily mean he always does so. Once again, not a direct lie.) Claire is with him, he says that Locke should not tell anyone he saw her, and that her baby is "where it needs to be". Viewing this scene with season 5/6 revelations in mind, it makes so much more sense. Christian/smokey is already maneuvering Claire into the position we find her in in S6, with the missing baby as motivation to manipulate her into her actions at the Temple. He also tells Locke now how to move the island, an important step in his plan to kill Jacob.
The question this episode poses, then, is what causes Locke's prophetic dreams, and are they aligned with Jacob or the monster? His first was an image of his mother and Boone, leading to Boone's death. The second showed Yemi, and led him to the Pearl, which may have been the intent of the first dream. The third was Boone, who told him to save Eko from the polar bear. And the fourth was Horace Goodspeed, pointing him to the cabin where we find Christian in place of Jacob.
Two of these dreams led him to places where his faith was shattered. The third gave him some small measure of faith back*. and the fourth led him directly into the plans of Mr Loophole.
*And note this: saving Mr Eko led back to the Pearl, to Eko's confrontation with Yemi, to Eko's death, Locke's revelation at Eko's grave, and a chain of events that resulted in the destruction of most of the remaining means of contact with anyone outside the island - the Flame, the submarine, and the Looking Glass.
Can't wait.
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Blackhawk wrote:me either....forgot lost is on tonight,
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
I'm West Coast so I'm commenting on the "sub-titled" encore presentation.
Flocke was sending Sawyer to Hydra to look for Ilana (And her "Base of the Statue" Sect) I believe. He told Sawyer that Hydra Island was where his friends came on Ajira 316, and they didn't come alone (He was looking for Ilana, not Widmore, IMHO)
<Disclaimer: Of course tonight could end up making me look like I'm talking out of the wrong sde of my nether regions.>
Flocke was sending Sawyer to Hydra to look for Ilana (And her "Base of the Statue" Sect) I believe. He told Sawyer that Hydra Island was where his friends came on Ajira 316, and they didn't come alone (He was looking for Ilana, not Widmore, IMHO)
<Disclaimer: Of course tonight could end up making me look like I'm talking out of the wrong sde of my nether regions.>
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
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danlo
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My GODS! Awesome ep, even if UFOs were flying under the satellite and I lost the first 15 mins. Great acting by woever plays Richard and the ending was pure Covenant v. Foul!!! The island is hell and you have to kill the devil to escape, but which one? (Why did the statue seem whole as the ship was approaching-only to be a foot afterwards???? 
) 
) fall far and well Pilots!
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Cagliostro
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It must have been in the part you missed. The boat hit the statue. Yeah, I know...
But yeah, Nestor did a great job.
Some thoughts - there are now 3 ways off the island - the sub, the Ajira plane and the donkey wheel. If we apply it to the good vs evil thing, the sub goes down, the plane goes up, and only Lapidus (that we know of) can pilot the plane. It seems making a play for the sub probably will not be a good strategy for the good guys. And look what happened to the last sub and who put it out of commission.
But yeah, Nestor did a great job.
Some thoughts - there are now 3 ways off the island - the sub, the Ajira plane and the donkey wheel. If we apply it to the good vs evil thing, the sub goes down, the plane goes up, and only Lapidus (that we know of) can pilot the plane. It seems making a play for the sub probably will not be a good strategy for the good guys. And look what happened to the last sub and who put it out of commission.
Life is a waste of time
Time is a waste of life
So get wasted all of the time
And you'll have the time of your life
Definitely a great episode.
So, it seems that LOST really is nothing more than a giant game of Backgammon (Or Chess or Stratego, etc) afterall. The island is the board, Smokey and Jacob are the Players and the Candidates are the pieces. And...I don't think Jacob really cares about people dying, other than that's another piece he lost (or LOST
)
Again we have "You gotta kill him before he speaks, he can be very persuasive", but, this time it's refferring to Jacob.
Smokey said Jacob stole his body? I think Smokey and his origins and how this relationship between them came about are really the only big mysteries left other than why Children don't survive preganncy when conceived on the island. I figured the Destruction of Tawaret Statue was the answer, but, Ethan was conceived on the island, and Tawaret was destroyed in the late 1800s
So, it seems that LOST really is nothing more than a giant game of Backgammon (Or Chess or Stratego, etc) afterall. The island is the board, Smokey and Jacob are the Players and the Candidates are the pieces. And...I don't think Jacob really cares about people dying, other than that's another piece he lost (or LOST
)Again we have "You gotta kill him before he speaks, he can be very persuasive", but, this time it's refferring to Jacob.
Smokey said Jacob stole his body? I think Smokey and his origins and how this relationship between them came about are really the only big mysteries left other than why Children don't survive preganncy when conceived on the island. I figured the Destruction of Tawaret Statue was the answer, but, Ethan was conceived on the island, and Tawaret was destroyed in the late 1800s
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
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wayfriend
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Best. Episode. Ever.
Yes, Nestor Carbonell really helped this episode shine.
And I love the way Titus Welliver, playing the Man in Black, absolutely channeled John Locke the way he delivered his lines. Or is it the other way around? It was very fun to watch.
I love the idea that the island is about redemption.
Sindatur, did the Man in Black say that that Jacob stole his body? Or his humanity? I seem to remember it being the latter, but I could very well be wrong.
Anyone else think the Man in Black's "insane" mother is Taweret, the goddess in whose image is the giant statue? Wikipedia says, "When paired with another deity, she became the demon-wife of Apep, the original god of evil."
And we also have "Apep ... the deification of darkness and chaos, and thus opponent of light and Ma'at (order/truth). ... As the personification of all that was evil, Apep was seen as a giant snake/serpent ..."
Maybe the Man in Black is Apep... which would make Jacob Ra ...
Yes, Nestor Carbonell really helped this episode shine.
And I love the way Titus Welliver, playing the Man in Black, absolutely channeled John Locke the way he delivered his lines. Or is it the other way around? It was very fun to watch.
I love the idea that the island is about redemption.
Sindatur, did the Man in Black say that that Jacob stole his body? Or his humanity? I seem to remember it being the latter, but I could very well be wrong.
Anyone else think the Man in Black's "insane" mother is Taweret, the goddess in whose image is the giant statue? Wikipedia says, "When paired with another deity, she became the demon-wife of Apep, the original god of evil."
And we also have "Apep ... the deification of darkness and chaos, and thus opponent of light and Ma'at (order/truth). ... As the personification of all that was evil, Apep was seen as a giant snake/serpent ..."
Maybe the Man in Black is Apep... which would make Jacob Ra ...
.
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ItisWritten
- <i>Haruchai</i>
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Then is the point of the side flashes a world in which the island is broken? Will this in some way show us proof that Flocke shouldn't win? If so, let's hope they get to that point soon.
In Richard's case, I'm not so sure if redemption is as important as penance. Wow, talk about a wish you'd like to take back. Of course, usually one knows when those wishes aren't purely hypothetical.
In Richard's case, I'm not so sure if redemption is as important as penance. Wow, talk about a wish you'd like to take back. Of course, usually one knows when those wishes aren't purely hypothetical.
ItisWritten
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[Syl]
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Also playing with the word 'lost,' I'm going for a very strong Paradise Lost connection.
Book II, Lines 666 (ha!) to 673:
So I'm going for the Island as Eden. I guess Satan got trapped there after man was kicked out (making Jacob Michael with the flaming sword who stood guarding it, or a replacement, the others taking up the role of Heavenly Host). Not that other mythological interpretations don't also work. Jacob said something to that effect this episode.
Book II, Lines 666 (ha!) to 673:
This shadow is Death, the son of Sin (quite arguably crazy) and Satan. It's also implied that Satan, Sin, and Death are also a kind of trinity, so it's not impossible that the Man in Black (Titus Welliver was a great choice there) can be both. Nor would I take anything that he's said as truth. He said whatever he needed to to get Eve to eat the apple, and he'll say what he thinks he needs to to get out.... The other shape,
If shape it might be call'd that shape had none
Distinguishable in member, joynt, or limb,
Or substance might be call'd that shadow seem'd,
For each seem'd either; black it stood as Night, [ 670 ]
Fierce as ten Furies, terrible as Hell,
And shook a dreadful Dart; what seem'd his head
The likeness of a Kingly Crown had on.
So I'm going for the Island as Eden. I guess Satan got trapped there after man was kicked out (making Jacob Michael with the flaming sword who stood guarding it, or a replacement, the others taking up the role of Heavenly Host). Not that other mythological interpretations don't also work. Jacob said something to that effect this episode.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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[Syl]
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And going the Egyptian route, I liked this bit about Sobek from Wikipedia:
Sobek's ambiguous nature led some Egyptians to believe that he was a repairer of evil that had been done, rather than a force for good in itself, for example, going to Duat to restore damage done to the dead as a result of their form of death. He was also said to call on suitable gods and goddesses required for protecting people in situation, effectively having a more distant role, nudging things along, rather than taking an active part. In this way, he was seen as a more primal god, eventually becoming regarded as an avatar of the primal god Amun, who at that time was considered the chief god. When his identity finally merged, Amun had become merged himself with Ra to become Amun-Ra, so Sobek, as an avatar of Amun-Ra, was known as Sobek-Ra.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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Zarathustra
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A good episode. Great for this season, but merely fair when compared to the other seasons.
I'm glad to have Richard's backstory, but we didn't learn a thing. We already knew Jacob made Richard immortal. We already knew Jacob was trying to contain the evil of MIB. We already knew MIB was trying to kill Jacob. We already knew Richard came to the island in chains on the Black Rock. This episode was another water-treading waste of time. Yet another "you're dead" and "we're in hell" misdirection that we know isn't true.
The wave that broke the statue and pushed the ship inland are the only two revelations to previous mysteries. Richard's past was just more irrelevant details. I was honestly hoping there was more to Richard. Why give him immortality and no one else? It was completely random and meaningless. There was nothing special about Richard. Just another guy brought to the island.
I'm glad to have Richard's backstory, but we didn't learn a thing. We already knew Jacob made Richard immortal. We already knew Jacob was trying to contain the evil of MIB. We already knew MIB was trying to kill Jacob. We already knew Richard came to the island in chains on the Black Rock. This episode was another water-treading waste of time. Yet another "you're dead" and "we're in hell" misdirection that we know isn't true.
The wave that broke the statue and pushed the ship inland are the only two revelations to previous mysteries. Richard's past was just more irrelevant details. I was honestly hoping there was more to Richard. Why give him immortality and no one else? It was completely random and meaningless. There was nothing special about Richard. Just another guy brought to the island.
Success will be my revenge -- DJT
I'll have to watch again, but, I'm pretty sure he said both in the same sentence, something like "He stole my body, my HUmanity"wayfriend wrote:Sindatur, did the Man in Black say that that Jacob stole his body? Or his humanity? I seem to remember it being the latter, but I could very well be wrong.
Anyone else think the Man in Black's "insane" mother is Taweret, the goddess in whose image is the giant statue? Wikipedia says, "When paired with another deity, she became the demon-wife of Apep, the original god of evil."
And we also have "Apep ... the deification of darkness and chaos, and thus opponent of light and Ma'at (order/truth). ... As the personification of all that was evil, Apep was seen as a giant snake/serpent ..."
Maybe the Man in Black is Apep... which would make Jacob Ra ...
Ooh, nice thought about his crazy mother being Tawaret. I also like the rest of your Egyptian stuff, and Syl's as well.
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?