I thought Keamy was really freakin creepy too. Especially when he said to Jin, "The heart wants what the heart wants." Was that empathy? I guess creepster empathy.sindatur wrote:.He's HECKaCreepy, I think he creeps me out more than Ben in full "Back against the Wall" manipulation mode
Lost--Season 6 - Spoilers Abound!!!
Moderators: Cagliostro, sgt.null
He might actually make a good replacement for Heath Ledger's Joker if they had a need for the character again, that's the kinda creepy feeling I get from himKi wrote:I thought Keamy was really freakin creepy too. Especially when he said to Jin, "The heart wants what the heart wants." Was that empathy? I guess creepster empathy.sindatur wrote:.He's HECKaCreepy, I think he creeps me out more than Ben in full "Back against the Wall" manipulation mode
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
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Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
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Back in Jughead, Desmond visits Charles Widmore in London. He refuses to tell Charles even if his daughter is safe; Charles warns him that once he's delivered his message to Faraday's mother, he should get out of the way and not become involved in what is happening, because it risks putting his daughter in danger.
When Desmond is shot by Ben, that would tell Widmore straight away that Desmond has failed to keep Penny safe. Which suggests to me that Widmore might have taken Desmond to punish him for putting his daughter in danger, and to keep him as far away from her as possible.
Edit: So, I figure we're only an episode or two in season 6 away from the scene when Ilana and her group shoot at Faraday, Sawyer, Locke and co after they steal the outrigger. They found the boats at the beach camp, with Ajira bottles, and it seems like it fits. The only flaw I can see in that idea is that Miles is with Ilana's group right now, so he'd be in both boats watching people shoot at himself.
When Desmond is shot by Ben, that would tell Widmore straight away that Desmond has failed to keep Penny safe. Which suggests to me that Widmore might have taken Desmond to punish him for putting his daughter in danger, and to keep him as far away from her as possible.
Edit: So, I figure we're only an episode or two in season 6 away from the scene when Ilana and her group shoot at Faraday, Sawyer, Locke and co after they steal the outrigger. They found the boats at the beach camp, with Ajira bottles, and it seems like it fits. The only flaw I can see in that idea is that Miles is with Ilana's group right now, so he'd be in both boats watching people shoot at himself.
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So, to answer my own question:
The "wise man" who said a war was coming to the island was Charles Widmore, in The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. So when our friend says it in The Package, he's quoting Widmore back to himself. What's interesting about it is that when Widmore said this to Locke, he also said "if you are not back on the island when that happens, the wrong side is going to win".
The fact that Widmore arrives with a sonic fence, a team of scientists, and treats "John Locke" as an enemy suggests that he knows at least something of what this war is about. But what about Locke? What did he mean that Locke needed to be back on the island when the war started?
The "wise man" who said a war was coming to the island was Charles Widmore, in The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. So when our friend says it in The Package, he's quoting Widmore back to himself. What's interesting about it is that when Widmore said this to Locke, he also said "if you are not back on the island when that happens, the wrong side is going to win".
The fact that Widmore arrives with a sonic fence, a team of scientists, and treats "John Locke" as an enemy suggests that he knows at least something of what this war is about. But what about Locke? What did he mean that Locke needed to be back on the island when the war started?
one more thing that keeps making me think King is a writer was that it seems, there is duality in the timeline. it seems the characters are having one lifeline running as their normal life and the other timeline running on the island.. before they were showing the characters past but to me it seems now that the characters are living two timelines.. as i said it remindes me of stephen kings Dark Tower, Jake dying under the mountain while still living back in new york. could be coincidence. but if it is its a big one.
Damon and Carlton have definitely unequivocally stated they are great Stephen King fans, and he's a big fan of the show (or at elast around S2 or S3 when he made that statement), but, they have always denied he has anything to do with writing the showBlackhawk wrote:one more thing that keeps making me think King is a writer was that it seems, there is duality in the timeline. it seems the characters are having one lifeline running as their normal life and the other timeline running on the island.. before they were showing the characters past but to me it seems now that the characters are living two timelines.. as i said it remindes me of stephen kings Dark Tower, Jake dying under the mountain while still living back in new york. could be coincidence. but if it is its a big one.
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
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One of the first things our friend does when he is found in John Locke's form on Hydra Island is ask for the passenger list from the plane. When Caesar tells him about Hurley and some others vanishing, he says he has an idea what mgiht have happened, but that he needs to meet up with his friends, and asks for a passenger list again.
He seems to be quite concerned about learning who was on the plane - which makes sense, when you think about it. He has a big gap in his knowledge, from when John Locke died to when his body arrived on the island. He doesn't know how many of them returned. He doesn't know which candidates came to the island, and which were transported by the anomaly, and right then that's what he needs to know.
He seems to be quite concerned about learning who was on the plane - which makes sense, when you think about it. He has a big gap in his knowledge, from when John Locke died to when his body arrived on the island. He doesn't know how many of them returned. He doesn't know which candidates came to the island, and which were transported by the anomaly, and right then that's what he needs to know.
sindatur wrote:Damon and Carlton have definitely unequivocally stated they are great Stephen King fans, and he's a big fan of the show (or at elast around S2 or S3 when he made that statement), but, they have always denied he has anything to do with writing the showBlackhawk wrote:one more thing that keeps making me think King is a writer was that it seems, there is duality in the timeline. it seems the characters are having one lifeline running as their normal life and the other timeline running on the island.. before they were showing the characters past but to me it seems now that the characters are living two timelines.. as i said it remindes me of stephen kings Dark Tower, Jake dying under the mountain while still living back in new york. could be coincidence. but if it is its a big one.
there we go... not King himself but probably almost surely inspired by him. that makes sense to me now. Thx Sindatur
NP. Let's cross our fingers and hope they weren't inspired by his ending a story skill. SK is a great idea man, and builds a story fantastically, but, often when it comes time to end it, it's like he got bored and just..."BOOM" ends it.Blackhawk wrote:sindatur wrote:Damon and Carlton have definitely unequivocally stated they are great Stephen King fans, and he's a big fan of the show (or at elast around S2 or S3 when he made that statement), but, they have always denied he has anything to do with writing the showBlackhawk wrote:one more thing that keeps making me think King is a writer was that it seems, there is duality in the timeline. it seems the characters are having one lifeline running as their normal life and the other timeline running on the island.. before they were showing the characters past but to me it seems now that the characters are living two timelines.. as i said it remindes me of stephen kings Dark Tower, Jake dying under the mountain while still living back in new york. could be coincidence. but if it is its a big one.
there we go... not King himself but probably almost surely inspired by him. that makes sense to me now. Thx Sindatur
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
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wayfriend
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BH, I had made the Jake/Dark Tower connection as well. That is why I anticipate "a reconcilliation of the timelines" as part of the conclusion.
I think the real John Locke will be back. I think it will be possible because he is alive in the other timeline.
Hey - maybe they swap John Lockes, leaving the MIB trapped in a stupid alternate timeline that no one cares about. Final scene, MIB screaming "Loooooooccccckkkkkkke!" as camera pulls back from planet.
Hey again - it seems to me that the MIB is not present in the alternate timeline. Nor Jacob. Maybe they were destroyed by the nuke?
Not to me. Where did you think the MIB was during that whole time?Murrin wrote:He seems to be quite concerned about learning who was on the plane - which makes sense, when you think about it.
Well, I for one find it significant that he was telling Locke this.Murrin wrote:What did he mean that Locke needed to be back on the island when the war started?
I think the real John Locke will be back. I think it will be possible because he is alive in the other timeline.
Hey - maybe they swap John Lockes, leaving the MIB trapped in a stupid alternate timeline that no one cares about. Final scene, MIB screaming "Loooooooccccckkkkkkke!" as camera pulls back from planet.
Hey again - it seems to me that the MIB is not present in the alternate timeline. Nor Jacob. Maybe they were destroyed by the nuke?
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Dead Is Dead:
Working on a timeline issue for our friend's taking over of Locke's form. After the crash of Ajira 316, in the evening, Sun and Lapedus leave an unconscious Ben on Hydra island and set off to the main island. They arrive in Dharmaville in the dark, and meet Christian, who tells them to wait for John Locke. It must be later in the night or the next morning that Locke is found by the other survivors, because it is light, and he visits Ben in the infirmary. They must, then arrive at Dharmaville a full day after Sun and Lapedus. This means there is no known point where he reappeared as Christian after first appearing as Locke.
I'm almost convinced Ben was lying about wanting to be judged, at first. Every step, Locke has to push and prod him into following through on what he said. When Locke first suggests he wants to be judged for killing his daughter, it looks as though the thought had never occured to Ben. Locke convinces him, along the way, that that is what he needs to do. He still manages to seem insincere right until the moment the smoke arrives.
The smoke vanishes before Alex appears. Clearly a one form at a time deal.
Irony: Locke says to Cesar, "You have a habit of calling people 'friend', but I don't think you mean it." The other person who overuses that word is our man in black.
"I assure you Sun, I'm the same man I've always been." More double meaning, hehe.
"Now you know what it was like to be me." With his references to blindly following, I suspect he's referring not just to Locke but to his original self following Jacob.
Working on a timeline issue for our friend's taking over of Locke's form. After the crash of Ajira 316, in the evening, Sun and Lapedus leave an unconscious Ben on Hydra island and set off to the main island. They arrive in Dharmaville in the dark, and meet Christian, who tells them to wait for John Locke. It must be later in the night or the next morning that Locke is found by the other survivors, because it is light, and he visits Ben in the infirmary. They must, then arrive at Dharmaville a full day after Sun and Lapedus. This means there is no known point where he reappeared as Christian after first appearing as Locke.
I'm almost convinced Ben was lying about wanting to be judged, at first. Every step, Locke has to push and prod him into following through on what he said. When Locke first suggests he wants to be judged for killing his daughter, it looks as though the thought had never occured to Ben. Locke convinces him, along the way, that that is what he needs to do. He still manages to seem insincere right until the moment the smoke arrives.
The smoke vanishes before Alex appears. Clearly a one form at a time deal.
Irony: Locke says to Cesar, "You have a habit of calling people 'friend', but I don't think you mean it." The other person who overuses that word is our man in black.
"I assure you Sun, I'm the same man I've always been." More double meaning, hehe.
"Now you know what it was like to be me." With his references to blindly following, I suspect he's referring not just to Locke but to his original self following Jacob.
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Implying "I'll trade you for your wife," I assume?wayfriend wrote:MIB wants Jin + MIB has Sun = a fairly obvious conclusion
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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wayfriend
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Well, he'll certainly try to use Sun as leverage, somehow. That was what I think is obvious.
But it's complex.
As Widmore absolutely requires Jin, but does not need Sun. So he would not allow such a trade. But Jin would certainly choose to be with his wife rather than be with Widmore, if he has any choice about it. So the MIB may entice Jin to try and escape Widmore. Of course, perhaps Widmore can convince Jin that the fate of the known universe and all that is in it is at stake. Then Jin will just sit there and think about how the world stinks.
Unless it turns out that Sun, not Jin, is the actual candidate, and Widmore is the one trying to use Jin as leverage, rather than the other way around. Sun was the one, after all, who had the miracle baby.
Certainly the negotiations will be complicated even more, by the fact that Sun will only be able to speak to Jin.
But it's complex.
As Widmore absolutely requires Jin, but does not need Sun. So he would not allow such a trade. But Jin would certainly choose to be with his wife rather than be with Widmore, if he has any choice about it. So the MIB may entice Jin to try and escape Widmore. Of course, perhaps Widmore can convince Jin that the fate of the known universe and all that is in it is at stake. Then Jin will just sit there and think about how the world stinks.
Unless it turns out that Sun, not Jin, is the actual candidate, and Widmore is the one trying to use Jin as leverage, rather than the other way around. Sun was the one, after all, who had the miracle baby.
Certainly the negotiations will be complicated even more, by the fact that Sun will only be able to speak to Jin.
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Sun can't speak English anymore. Maybe it's because she hit her head, maybe the MIB did something to her while she was knocked out.Murrin wrote:I'm still not sure where your "MIB has Sun" part of the equation came from.
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
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I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
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Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
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wayfriend
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What I was eluding to was that the MIB knows where Sun is, and he can get her any time he wants to, and probably nothing can prevent him from doing so. So, for all intents and purposes, he "has" her. He can either bring her to the edge of the pylons and show her to Jin. Or he can threaten to kill her. Or any number of things.Orlion wrote:Sun can't speak English anymore. Maybe it's because she hit her head, maybe the MIB did something to her while she was knocked out.Murrin wrote:I'm still not sure where your "MIB has Sun" part of the equation came from.
In the same sense, he "has" all of the candidates he needs to use the plane, with the exception of Jin, because Widmore, in locking Jin up behind the pylons, has effectively taken him away from the MIB. The MIB can't get to him there. Which makes him mad.
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