Gates of Fire

Free, open, general chat on any topic.

Moderators: Orlion, balon!, aliantha

User avatar
AjK
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:39 pm
Location: Standing in the dark. Watching you glow. Lifting a receiver ...

Post by AjK »

The strongest people I have had the honor of meeting in this life have all been women. For the wonderful women of the Watch:
Spoiler
“’The city speculates and guesses’, Leonidas resumed, ‘as to why I elected those I did to the Three Hundred. Was it for their prowess as individual men-at-arms? How could this be, when among champions such as Polynikes, Dienekes, Alpheus and Maron I nominated as well unblooded youths such as Ariston and your own Alexandros? Perhaps, the city supposes, I divined some subtle alchemy of this unique aggregation. Maybe I was bribed, or paying back favors. I will never tell the city why I appointed these three hundred. I will never tell the Three Hundred themselves. But I now tell you.

“’I chose them not for their own valor, lady, but for that of their women.’

“At these words of the king a cry of anguish escaped my breast, as I understood before he spoke what further he would now say. I felt his hand about my shoulder, comforting me.

“’Greece stands now upon her most perilous hour. If she saves herself, it will not be at the Gates (death alone awaits us and our allies there) but later, in battles yet to come, by land and sea. Then Greece, if the gods will it, will preserve herself. Do you understand this, lady? Well. Now listen.

“’When the battle is over, when the Three Hundred have gone down to death, then will all Greece look to the Spartans, to see how they bear it.

“’But who, lady, who will the Spartans look to? To you. To you and the other wives and mothers, sisters and daughters of the fallen.

“’If they behold your hearts riven and broken with grief, they, too, will break. And Greece will break with them. But if you bear up, dry-eyed, not alone enduring your loss but seizing it with contempt for its agony and embracing it as the honor that it is in truth, then Sparta will stand. And all Hellas will stand behind her.

“’Why have I nominated you, lady, to bear up beneath this most terrible of trials, you and your sisters of the Three Hundred? Because you can.’
... nobody I know.
User avatar
Brinn
S.P.O.W
Posts: 3137
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 2:07 pm
Location: Worcester, MA

Post by Brinn »

Huzzah!
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
User avatar
Zarathustra
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19636
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am

Post by Zarathustra »

Okay, now that's a spoiler! :D

That was one of the most poignant parts of the book for me. Tear-jerker moment for sure.

But dedicating it to the women of the Watch is just blatant female pandering. :P
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
User avatar
AjK
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:39 pm
Location: Standing in the dark. Watching you glow. Lifting a receiver ...

Post by AjK »

Zarathustra wrote:dedicating it to the women of the Watch is just blatant female pandering. :P
I intended the post to be more "acknowledging" than "pandering" but to each his or her own. And I didn't dedica... er, I mean ... acknowledge the women of the Watch. I acknowledged the wonderful women of the Watch. That way if there were some KW women that you didn't feel were that wonderful you could exclude them and then you wouldn't be put off by my post. So if anything I was pandering to you. ;) :biggrin:
... nobody I know.
User avatar
lucimay
Lord
Posts: 15044
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:17 pm
Location: Mott Wood, Genebakis
Contact:

Post by lucimay »

HAH! good retort! :D right on! :goodpost:
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies



i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio



a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
User avatar
AjK
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:39 pm
Location: Standing in the dark. Watching you glow. Lifting a receiver ...

Dienekes' Pre-Battle Speech

Post by AjK »

[pandering]Thanks, lucimay, that was very nice of you![/pandering]

All in good fun here at KW. Anywhooooo ... continuing:
Spoiler
The men called for Dienekes. They wanted a quip, a wisecrack, something short and pithy as he was known for. He resisted. You could see he did not wish to speak.

‘Brothers, I am not a king or a general. I’ve never held rank beyond that of a platoon commander. So I say to you now only what I would say to my own men, knowing the fear that stands unspoken in each heart – not of death, but worse, of faltering or failing, of somehow proving unworthy in this, the ultimate hour.”

These words had struck the mark; one could read it plain on the faces of the silent, raptly attending men.

“Here is what you do, friends. Forget country. Forget king. Forget wife and children and freedom. Forget every concept, however noble, that you imagine you fight for here today. Act for this alone: for the man who stands at your shoulder. He is everything and everything is contained within him. That’s all I know. That’s all I can tell you.”
... nobody I know.
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 61748
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Post by Avatar »

So I'm just busy rereading this, and I can see why they teach it at West Point etc. It's not the battles they're teaching, it's the bloody patriotism.

--A
User avatar
Brinn
S.P.O.W
Posts: 3137
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 2:07 pm
Location: Worcester, MA

Post by Brinn »

Still one of the best reading experiences I've ever had. An absolute Tour-de-Force!
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
User avatar
lucimay
Lord
Posts: 15044
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:17 pm
Location: Mott Wood, Genebakis
Contact:

Post by lucimay »

heh, I was looking for the facebook "like" button to "like" your post Brinn! :D LOL!!!!

yeah I recommend this book (which was recommended to me here by you guys) to anyone who asks about historical fiction recommendations. even the ladies who most normally might not be interested in this sort of thing. (oh come on, it IS decidedly more appealing to men, don'tcha think? :P )
I'm on a couple of grps on facebook where the subject comes up from time to time (malazan group, outlander group) and I absolutely always recommend it.
I'm not well versed in historical fiction but I truly loved pressfield's writing.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies



i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio



a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23653
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

I was surprised to see this thread! :lol: And, of course, delighted.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 61748
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Post by Avatar »

:LOLS:

Oh, I'm certainly enjoying it again. (Brinn must have notifications for this thread. ;) )

But there's an awful lot of "what makes us great is that we die for our people" isn't there? :D

--A
User avatar
Brinn
S.P.O.W
Posts: 3137
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 2:07 pm
Location: Worcester, MA

Post by Brinn »

Bump. For any newcomers to the forum who haven't heard of this masterpiece. Read it and thank me later!
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
User avatar
Linna Heartbooger
Are you not a sine qua non for a redemption?
Posts: 3894
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:17 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by Linna Heartbooger »

Oh, huh... this sounds like something I would enjoy / which would be good for me.
I know I'm prone to crying.

Ohhhhh... I think this would be a funny one for writing An Anti-Recommendation...
Anti-recommendations of your favorite books - a thread from which I have derived much pleasure.
"People without hope not only don't write novels, but what is more to the point, they don't read them.
They don't take long looks at anything, because they lack the courage.
The way to despair is to refuse to have any kind of experience, and the novel, of course, is a way to have experience."
-Flannery O'Connor

"In spite of much that militates against quietness there are people who still read books. They are the people who keep me going."
-Elisabeth Elliot, Preface, "A Chance to Die: The Life and Legacy of Amy Carmichael"
User avatar
Brinn
S.P.O.W
Posts: 3137
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 2:07 pm
Location: Worcester, MA

Post by Brinn »

Read this thread for reactions from others who have read the book. Not a single person has had anything less than rave reviews.
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25374
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

🤔
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25374
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

Nice JSM quote btw 😏
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion Forum”