You have the meaning correct. Spanner is British English for a wrench...or rather, wrench is American English for a spanner.TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:OMG, I just found this. Spanner in the Works. Should be called "Monkey wrench in the works." What's a "spanner"?
!!SPOILERS!! AATE complete novel discussion !!SPOILERS!!
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Love prevails.
~ Tracie Mckinney-Hammon
Change is not a process for the impatient.
~ Barbara Reinhold
A government which robs Peter to pay Paul, can always count on the support of Paul.
~ George Bernard Shaw
~ Tracie Mckinney-Hammon
Change is not a process for the impatient.
~ Barbara Reinhold
A government which robs Peter to pay Paul, can always count on the support of Paul.
~ George Bernard Shaw
You know what (to those who are slogging around opinions *before* having read the book): I'd *wait* until you read it before you start deciding whether there are "too many strong characters" or the like. Making negative assessments (or any assessment) about events/characters/etc in the novel when you haven't read it gets my goat a bit. I think it's most unfair that you are making criticism of something you know very little about. Actually, it's disrespectful; especially to the author and all the time and effort he's put into the book.
I don't think people should be coming into this thread and asking for elements of the story to be revealed or explained. That is *not* what this thread was set up for.
That is, of course, only my opinion but I feel very strongly about it.
I don't think people should be coming into this thread and asking for elements of the story to be revealed or explained. That is *not* what this thread was set up for.
That is, of course, only my opinion but I feel very strongly about it.
I agree with your opinion Seareach. I don't think I would want to read the Arc...much better to get the official book in October. However, my view of Linden has been forged by books 1 and 2, not by the Spoilers. That being said, Stephen has done a marvelous job till this point. There's is no way he can disappoint.Seareach wrote:You know what (to those who are slogging around opinions *before* having read the book): I'd *wait* until you read it before you start deciding whether there are "too many strong characters" or the like. Making negative assessments (or any assessment) about events/characters/etc in the novel when you haven't read it gets my goat a bit. I think it's most unfair that you are making criticism of something you know very little about. Actually, it's disrespectful; especially to the author and all the time and effort he's put into the book.
I don't think people should be coming into this thread and asking for elements of the story to be revealed or explained. That is *not* what this thread was set up for.
That is, of course, only my opinion but I feel very strongly about it.
I realize your opinion about Linden is from books 1 and 2. I'm ok with that. I'm talking about opinions expressed related to the minor information provided by Creator and responded to by myself.shinnok wrote:I agree with your opinion Seareach. I don't think I would want to read the Arc...much better to get the official book in October. However, my view of Linden has been forged by books 1 and 2, not by the Spoilers. That being said, Stephen has done a marvelous job till this point. There's is no way he can disappoint.Seareach wrote:You know what (to those who are slogging around opinions *before* having read the book): I'd *wait* until you read it before you start deciding whether there are "too many strong characters" or the like. Making negative assessments (or any assessment) about events/characters/etc in the novel when you haven't read it gets my goat a bit. I think it's most unfair that you are making criticism of something you know very little about. Actually, it's disrespectful; especially to the author and all the time and effort he's put into the book.
I don't think people should be coming into this thread and asking for elements of the story to be revealed or explained. That is *not* what this thread was set up for.
That is, of course, only my opinion but I feel very strongly about it.
I haven't, as such, read the ARC but apart from typographical errors/formatting problems/a few extremely minor changes, it's the finished product. It's not a "draft": what's in the ARC is going to be in the book published in October.
Anyway...
Oh, just a friendly reminder: dlbpharmd and HighLordTolkien (the other mods of this forum) have *not* read AATE. They are not modding this thread. Only I am. If anyone's peeved with what I've said and wants to discuss it with a different mod if you contact either of them or even our High Lord Kevinswatch (Jay) please DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES reveal any AATE spoilers to them. They'll not be happy if you do.
Of course, you're very welcome to discuss it with me. I'm (usually) easy to get along with! 
Last edited by Seareach on Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
No problem (I am Creator too! 
)
As to updates ... well, our intrepid band has made it out of the Lost Deep. And another Insequent bites the dust! Ardent - I was kinda fond of him - will be lost. I wonder if another one shows up. After some trials and tribulations, Linden is now going to attempt to free Jerimiah from the Croyel. I can't wait.
It is interesting that the pacing of the book is over hours and several days rather than the days / weeks of some others. I haven't yet reflected enough on the pacing to articulate how it feels, but it is different.
Also, Linden is still whiny! 
In one scene, where Covenant 'brings her back' from a - lets say - mental breakdown caused by the escape from She-who-must-not-be-named, she is thrown for a loop by the fact that Covenant will not embrace her! She thinks and internally whines about it incessantly even though she should know it is NOT because he has lost his love for her ... but it is to allow him to remain 'in control'. She thinks the worse of his 'rejection' and I felt she should know better!
More reports after I see what Linen's success is with freeing Jeremiah!! I am in the second half of the book (first getting to and thru Lost Deep, second after Lost Deep)
[I am resisting the temptation to leap to the end of the book myself!
)
BTW, even tho I buy the ARC ($100 on eBay); I still buy the published one from Amazon (and will probably buy one for my iPad and the audio version!! You can never have enough Donaldson!!
)As to updates ... well, our intrepid band has made it out of the Lost Deep. And another Insequent bites the dust! Ardent - I was kinda fond of him - will be lost. I wonder if another one shows up. After some trials and tribulations, Linden is now going to attempt to free Jerimiah from the Croyel. I can't wait.
It is interesting that the pacing of the book is over hours and several days rather than the days / weeks of some others. I haven't yet reflected enough on the pacing to articulate how it feels, but it is different.
Also, Linden is still whiny!
In one scene, where Covenant 'brings her back' from a - lets say - mental breakdown caused by the escape from She-who-must-not-be-named, she is thrown for a loop by the fact that Covenant will not embrace her! She thinks and internally whines about it incessantly even though she should know it is NOT because he has lost his love for her ... but it is to allow him to remain 'in control'. She thinks the worse of his 'rejection' and I felt she should know better!More reports after I see what Linen's success is with freeing Jeremiah!! I am in the second half of the book (first getting to and thru Lost Deep, second after Lost Deep)
[I am resisting the temptation to leap to the end of the book myself!
)BTW, even tho I buy the ARC ($100 on eBay); I still buy the published one from Amazon (and will probably buy one for my iPad and the audio version!! You can never have enough Donaldson!!
lol...thanks Madadeva! Your excitement is contagious. So it seems the lack of lore I mentioned earlier is being addressed by the Insequent. Question: Does Covenant have any powers? Is he able to use Wild Magic without a ring?Madadeva wrote:No problem (I am Creator too!
As to updates ... well, our intrepid band has made it out of the Lost Deep. And another Insequent bites the dust! Ardent - I was kinda fond of him - will be lost. I wonder if another one shows up. After some trials and tribulations, Linden is now going to attempt to free Jerimiah from the Croyel. I can't wait.
It is interesting that the pacing of the book is over hours and several days rather than the days / weeks of some others. I haven't yet reflected enough on the pacing to articulate how it feels, but it is different.
BTW, even tho I buy the ARC ($100 on eBay); I still buy the published one from Amazon (and will probably buy one for my iPad and the audio version!! You can never have enough Donaldson!!
He hasn't really exhibited power per se - although he did use the Krill in a fight against Roger and the Croyel in the Lost Deep that was awesome!
While the Insequent represent relevant and substantial lore, apparently they way Linden achieved their escape from the Skurj in the Lost Deep (she pierced a subteranean cavern ceiling and let lose a flood that drowned them) has, acording to the Ardent, 'washed away' the auguries and predictions of the Insequent. I don't know (yet) whether this suggests that the Insequent will not play any part in what follows. However, the Adent did mention that their were other followers of the Mahdoubt amongst the Insequent beyond himself ... so perhaps more colorful powers to come!
While the Insequent represent relevant and substantial lore, apparently they way Linden achieved their escape from the Skurj in the Lost Deep (she pierced a subteranean cavern ceiling and let lose a flood that drowned them) has, acording to the Ardent, 'washed away' the auguries and predictions of the Insequent. I don't know (yet) whether this suggests that the Insequent will not play any part in what follows. However, the Adent did mention that their were other followers of the Mahdoubt amongst the Insequent beyond himself ... so perhaps more colorful powers to come!
Covenant used the Krill? Awesome! I don't think he can use it without Health-Sense or White Gold to trigger it...so that may mean he's not the same 'numb' Covenant that was killed by Lord Foul.Madadeva wrote:He hasn't really exhibited power per se - although he did use the Krill in a fight against Roger and the Croyel in the Lost Deep that was awesome!
While the Insequent represent relevant and substantial lore, apparently they way Linden achieved their escape from the Skurj in the Lost Deep (she pierced a subteranean cavern ceiling and let lose a flood that drowned them) has, acording to the Ardent, 'washed away' the auguries and predictions of the Insequent. I don't know (yet) whether this suggests that the Insequent will not play any part in what follows. However, the Adent did mention that their were other followers of the Mahdoubt amongst the Insequent beyond himself ... so perhaps more colorful powers to come!
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Too many strong characters
I would like to throw something out there for everyone to think about as far as the claim of too many strong characters. In the previous two trilogies, the strong characters arose from the people of the land because they had access to (limited) amounts of Earthpower. Lore was there for the taking (with great personal sacrifice). The Masters have nearly eliminated the capacity for strong characters. So, the Insequent are more than just plot devices. What characters are not plot devices. No characters, no story. They fill a gap. They make things possible that would not otherwise be so if they did not exist. Maybe we should also recall that Foul has upped the ante. He has tried other ways to crack his prison. He needs some heavy duty players if he is to succeed. And he will. Just not in the way he thinks. Or maybe he will, but our dynamic duo will pull victory from the jaws of defeat in some as yet unforeseen way.
Just some thoughts.
Just some thoughts.
Thank you for your thoughts. The issue I have with all the powerful players is more a matter of balance, organic growth or not from the material itself and to me the lack of (my own perceived) necessity.
In other words, in the previous Chrons I felt an organic connection between the world, its (powerful or less so) inhabitants and story. In the Last Chrons, one after another player is yanked on stage while, - to me -, their connection to the Land, its history, and its people, is often strenuous. Or to put it in a similar way as I have earlier in this thread, it feels quite different than the manner in which the First and Second Chrons were connected.
Again, certainly after 'the Gap' I had *high* expectations of the Last Chrons. The prologue fanned this expectations to a blaze. Unfortunately they were not met, but perhaps they were unrealistic in the first place.
Anyway, let's get back to our posse in the Lost Deep, shall we?
In other words, in the previous Chrons I felt an organic connection between the world, its (powerful or less so) inhabitants and story. In the Last Chrons, one after another player is yanked on stage while, - to me -, their connection to the Land, its history, and its people, is often strenuous. Or to put it in a similar way as I have earlier in this thread, it feels quite different than the manner in which the First and Second Chrons were connected.
Again, certainly after 'the Gap' I had *high* expectations of the Last Chrons. The prologue fanned this expectations to a blaze. Unfortunately they were not met, but perhaps they were unrealistic in the first place.
Anyway, let's get back to our posse in the Lost Deep, shall we?
I miss the Lords of the first chronicles - they were spectacular characters. They fought -hopelessly - against incredible powers with dignity and grace. Lord Morahm, Foamfolloer, Hile Troy, Elena, Bannor - they are some of the best characters in Fantasy. In the Second Chronicles, you've got Vain, Sunder, Brinn, Nom, Findail, Picthwife - all great characters. So far in the Last Chronicles I haven't felt anything akin to that except for the urviles (!) the Theomac and the Mahdoubt. I'm not sure why I feel that way. Maybe Linden's emotional distress weakens or shuts out the other characters out.Hiro wrote:Thank you for your thoughts. The issue I have with all the powerful players is more a matter of balance, organic growth or not from the material itself and to me the lack of (my own perceived) necessity.
In other words, in the previous Chrons I felt an organic connection between the world, its (powerful or less so) inhabitants and story. In the Last Chrons, one after another player is yanked on stage while, - to me -, their connection to the Land, its history, and its people, is often strenuous. Or to put it in a similar way as I have earlier in this thread, it feels quite different than the manner in which the First and Second Chrons were connected.
Anyway, let's get back to our posse in the Lost Deep, shall we?
Back to the Lost Deep pl...how's that mission going, Creator?
shinnok wrote:I miss the Lords of the first chronicles - they were spectacular characters. They fought -hopelessly - against incredible powers with dignity and grace. Lord Morahm, Foamfolloer, Hile Troy, Elena, Bannor - they are some of the best characters in Fantasy. In the Second Chronicles, you've got Vain, Sunder, Brinn, Nom, Findail, Picthwife - all great characters. So far in the Last Chronicles I haven't felt anything akin to that except for the urviles (!) the Theomac and the Mahdoubt. I'm not sure why I feel that way. Maybe Linden's emotional distress weakens or shuts out the other characters out.Hiro wrote:Thank you for your thoughts. The issue I have with all the powerful players is more a matter of balance, organic growth or not from the material itself and to me the lack of (my own perceived) necessity.
In other words, in the previous Chrons I felt an organic connection between the world, its (powerful or less so) inhabitants and story. In the Last Chrons, one after another player is yanked on stage while, - to me -, their connection to the Land, its history, and its people, is often strenuous. Or to put it in a similar way as I have earlier in this thread, it feels quite different than the manner in which the First and Second Chrons were connected.
Anyway, let's get back to our posse in the Lost Deep, shall we?
Back to the Lost Deep pl...how's that mission going, Creator?
Agreed on all those wonderful characters!!!
Do you maybe mean, "tenuous"?In other words, in the previous Chrons I felt an organic connection between the world, its (powerful or less so) inhabitants and story. In the Last Chrons, one after another player is yanked on stage while, - to me -, their connection to the Land, its history, and its people, is often strenuous.
Anyway, I felt that way in TOT about the whole Brathairrealm sequence. It really didn't connect to the rest of the story, even if it was necessary to explain how TC gets his mind back, leads to the rest of Linden's backstory, and introduces Nom who is crucial in WGW. It reminded me of a line from Monty Python when the show switched skits: "And now for something totally diferent."
We also had the Sunbane which was a danger of immense proportions and it all but overwhelms the first two parts of TWL. One lack I find in the Last Chrons is the lack of clear and present danger. Just what the heck is Foul up to?In the Second Chronicles, you've got Vain, Sunder, Brinn, Nom, Findail, Picthwife - all great characters.