Meat, bread and cheese

[Barnetto]

As far as I can recall, the most extensive description of the farming and animal husbandry in the Land is actually contained in "Gilden Fire" as Lord Hyrim (?) etc leave Revelstone and head east. There is a description of them passing through the worked land which gives a better idea of the populated areas.

But SRD chose to cut it out (or his publisher did) - just goes to show that he really didn't feel it was necessary to deal with the potential for readers to wonder, "Heh, where are all these Land folks". Or that when he did feel like dealing with it, it just wasn't sufficiently part of the story to retain...

[thewormoftheworld'send]

As far as I can recall, the most extensive description of the farming and animal husbandry in the Land is actually contained in "Gilden Fire" as Lord Hyrim (?) etc leave Revelstone and head east. There is a description of them passing through the worked land which gives a better idea of the populated areas.

But SRD chose to cut it out (or his publisher did) - just goes to show that he really didn't feel it was necessary to deal with the potential for readers to wonder, "Heh, where are all these Land folks". Or that when he did feel like dealing with it, it just wasn't sufficiently part of the story to retain...

I thought cutting out that part (a move strongly recommended by Lester del Rey) had to do with not violating the premise that the Land is Covenant's dream.

I'm glad it got cut, since precisely the same plot device was used in TWL. Instead of encountering a forest as in GF that they couldn't go around, the questors encountered a swamp. Instead of encountering ur-viles, they encountered the Lurker and its minions. And in both cases they would have been much better off going around instead of through. But I'm just saying using the same plot device gets repetitious.

[Barnetto]

I thought cutting out that part (a move strongly recommended by Lester del Rey) had to do with not violating the premise that the Land is Covenant's dream.

I'm glad it got cut, since precisely the same plot device was used in TWL. Instead of encountering a forest as in GF that they couldn't go around, the questors encountered a swamp. Instead of encountering ur-viles, they encountered the Lurker and its minions. And in both cases they would have been much better off going around instead of through. But I'm just saying using the same plot device gets repetitious.

Yes, you're absolutely right - it was the POV issue that required it to be cut out - I was just pointing out that SRD didn't feel the need to reintroduce that particular descriptive element (of the farmsteads etc) anywhere else (such as when TC set out from Revelstone in TIW).

And, of course, as you point out, not only were essentially the same plot elements used for the both the forest and the swamp, if left in, they would have been used in relation to the very same quest to find the Giants in TIW!

I agree that they were quite right to remove it - it added little to the story - though there was also some extra description and explanation of the haruchai and their vow in Gildenfire that it would have been good to have reintroduced somewhere in the main body of the Chronicles.

[Morinmoss]

What bothers me more is the question: where do people of the Land go to the bathroom? Does each stonedown have a communal stone outhouse? What do they wipe with when they are done? For the Woodhelvinen it's a no-brainer. With all the trees, they surely can make parchment to clean up after dropping a deuce. But what about the Stonedowners? Do they use rocks that they wash after every use?

[Cambo]

Pummice

[shadowbinding shoe]

Pummice

Don't be cruel. The answer is sand(*). The giants of course use Stone and Sea. They're hardy.



(*) I heard once that in certain places in our world the custom is to dedicate one of your hands to the task. Right hand is for eating while Left hand is for cleaning.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

What bothers me more is the question: where do people of the Land go to the bathroom? Does each stonedown have a communal stone outhouse? What do they wipe with when they are done? For the Woodhelvinen it's a no-brainer. With all the trees, they surely can make parchment to clean up after dropping a deuce. But what about the Stonedowners? Do they use rocks that they wash after every use?

This question is brought up now and then. Of course nobody asks that about LoTR, or any other book, not that I know of. But if Donaldson were to focus on this detail, then why not focus on other details, such as Linden's periods? What does she use for tampons anyway? Perhaps you should try reading Piers Anthony's Firefly, or Stephen King - the toilet scene in Dreamcatcher...

[Zarathustra]

Early in Runes, Donaldson described a pipe for human waste in the stone hut where Linden and Anele were being held.

I think this question could be asked of nearly every single work of fiction ever produced. In fact, I remember thinking this same thing when I was 5 and noticed that Steve Austin (the Six Million Dollar Man) never went to the bathroom. Seriously, people, you don't want this included in your fiction. We don't need graphic descriptions of Galadriel wiping her ass with beautiful golden mallorn leaves to improve the story of the Lord of the Rings. And honestly, Donaldson's story could have done without that pipe.

[SleeplessOne]

What bothers me more is the question: where do people of the Land go to the bathroom? Does each stonedown have a communal stone outhouse? What do they wipe with when they are done? For the Woodhelvinen it's a no-brainer. With all the trees, they surely can make parchment to clean up after dropping a deuce. But what about the Stonedowners? Do they use rocks that they wash after every use?

from ROTE :

The curtained doorway near Anele admitted her to Mithil Stonedown's version of a lavatory. A stone basin and a large ewer full of water sat on a low wooden table. Beside them was a pot of fine sand, presumably for scrubbing away dirt. A clay pipe angled down into the floor answered other needs.

I guess the reason that Donaldson doesn't mention lavatories often is that it makes for pretty boring reading ..

[High Lord Tolkien]

We don't need graphic descriptions of Galadriel wiping her ass with beautiful golden mallorn leaves to improve the story of the Lord of the Rings.

Well.......................going to be hard to forget that image next time I read it. Thanks. You bastard!

[shadowbinding shoe]

We don't need graphic descriptions of Galadriel wiping her ass with beautiful golden mallorn leaves to improve the story of the Lord of the Rings.

This must be added to the LotR extra files

from ROTE :
Quote:
The curtained doorway near Anele admitted her to Mithil Stonedown's version of a lavatory. A stone basin and a large ewer full of water sat on a low wooden table. Beside them was a pot of fine sand, presumably for scrubbing away dirt. A clay pipe angled down into the floor answered other needs.

I was right!

[thewormoftheworld'send]

We don't need graphic descriptions of Galadriel wiping her ass with beautiful golden mallorn leaves to improve the story of the Lord of the Rings.

This must be added to the LotR extra files

from ROTE :
Quote:
The curtained doorway near Anele admitted her to Mithil Stonedown's version of a lavatory. A stone basin and a large ewer full of water sat on a low wooden table. Beside them was a pot of fine sand, presumably for scrubbing away dirt. A clay pipe angled down into the floor answered other needs.

I was right!

You got one!

Now I wish someone would explain to me how sand acts as a cleaning agent. Wasn't animal fat used at one time?

[shadowbinding shoe]

We don't need graphic descriptions of Galadriel wiping her ass with beautiful golden mallorn leaves to improve the story of the Lord of the Rings.

This must be added to the LotR extra files

from ROTE :
Quote:
The curtained doorway near Anele admitted her to Mithil Stonedown's version of a lavatory. A stone basin and a large ewer full of water sat on a low wooden table. Beside them was a pot of fine sand, presumably for scrubbing away dirt. A clay pipe angled down into the floor answered other needs.

I was right!

You got one!

Now I wish someone would explain to me how sand acts as a cleaning agent. Wasn't animal fat used at one time?

It's abrasive and absorbent, the two main features that make toilet paper the champion of toilets everywhere. Also cheap as dirt. I have no idea how fat would work.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

This must be added to the LotR extra files
I was right!

You got one!

Now I wish someone would explain to me how sand acts as a cleaning agent. Wasn't animal fat used at one time?

It's abrasive and absorbent, the two main features that make toilet paper the champion of toilets everywhere. Also cheap as dirt. I have no idea how fat would work.

Rendered animal fat is a main ingredient in most soap. Some soaps use pumice. Fast Orange is a good example of the latter used by mechanics. But sand - by itself - it sounds like I wouldn't have any skin left either, much less dirt.

[shadowbinding shoe]

You got one!

Now I wish someone would explain to me how sand acts as a cleaning agent. Wasn't animal fat used at one time?

It's abrasive and absorbent, the two main features that make toilet paper the champion of toilets everywhere. Also cheap as dirt. I have no idea how fat would work.

Rendered animal fat is a main ingredient in most soap. Some soaps use pumice. Fast Orange is a good example of the latter used by mechanics. But sand - by itself - it sounds like I wouldn't have any skin left either, much less dirt.

Soap is not fat. Soap is a composite chemical that contain a hydrophobic part (like fat) and a hydrophilic part that interacts with water. That's how it dissolves filth and stains. It breaks apart and surrounds hydrophobic materials in hydrophilic shells that can carry it away in water. Making soap from fatty materials involves several major chemical alterations.

As for pumice it works in a lot of ways like sand. From wiki:

"Pumice stones" are often used in beauty salons during the pedicure process to remove dry and excess skin from the bottom of the foot as well as calluses. It was also used in ancient Greek and Roman times to remove excess hair.

I'd guess asses would react just like feet to interaction with bare dirt: they'd harden and desensitize into a proper consistency.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

It's abrasive and absorbent, the two main features that make toilet paper the champion of toilets everywhere. Also cheap as dirt. I have no idea how fat would work.

Rendered animal fat is a main ingredient in most soap. Some soaps use pumice. Fast Orange is a good example of the latter used by mechanics. But sand - by itself - it sounds like I wouldn't have any skin left either, much less dirt.

Soap is not fat. Soap is a composite chemical that contain a hydrophobic part (like fat) and a hydrophilic part that interacts with water. That's how it dissolves filth and stains. It breaks apart and surrounds hydrophobic materials in hydrophilic shells that can carry it away in water. Making soap from fatty materials involves several major chemical alterations.

As for pumice it works in a lot of ways like sand. From wiki:

"Pumice stones" are often used in beauty salons during the pedicure process to remove dry and excess skin from the bottom of the foot as well as calluses. It was also used in ancient Greek and Roman times to remove excess hair.

I'd guess asses would react just like feet to interaction with bare dirt: they'd harden and desensitize into a proper consistency.

I like how Google makes people experts in everything. Without looking, can you define "hydrophilic" for me?

[shadowbinding shoe]

Rendered animal fat is a main ingredient in most soap. Some soaps use pumice. Fast Orange is a good example of the latter used by mechanics. But sand - by itself - it sounds like I wouldn't have any skin left either, much less dirt.

Soap is not fat. Soap is a composite chemical that contain a hydrophobic part (like fat) and a hydrophilic part that interacts with water. That's how it dissolves filth and stains. It breaks apart and surrounds hydrophobic materials in hydrophilic shells that can carry it away in water. Making soap from fatty materials involves several major chemical alterations.

As for pumice it works in a lot of ways like sand. From wiki:

"Pumice stones" are often used in beauty salons during the pedicure process to remove dry and excess skin from the bottom of the foot as well as calluses. It was also used in ancient Greek and Roman times to remove excess hair.

I'd guess asses would react just like feet to interaction with bare dirt: they'd harden and desensitize into a proper consistency.

I like how Google makes people experts in everything. Without looking, can you define "hydrophilic" for me?

That wasn't Google, just basic Chemistry knowledge. Hydrophilic means literally liking water (just like hydrophobic means disliking water). It has to do with electric charges on the molecules. Water and hydrophilic substances have electric charges on their surfaces that attract each other while hydrophobic substances don't.

Are you trying to get a rise out of me? So what, if any, is the connection between Hydra and Water?

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Soap is not fat. Soap is a composite chemical that contain a hydrophobic part (like fat) and a hydrophilic part that interacts with water. That's how it dissolves filth and stains. It breaks apart and surrounds hydrophobic materials in hydrophilic shells that can carry it away in water. Making soap from fatty materials involves several major chemical alterations.

As for pumice it works in a lot of ways like sand. From wiki:
I'd guess asses would react just like feet to interaction with bare dirt: they'd harden and desensitize into a proper consistency.

I like how Google makes people experts in everything. Without looking, can you define "hydrophilic" for me?

That wasn't Google, just basic Chemistry knowledge. Hydrophilic means literally liking water (just like hydrophobic means disliking water). It has to do with electric charges on the molecules. Water and hydrophilic substances have electric charges on their surfaces that attract each other while hydrophobic substances don't.

Are you trying to get a rise out of me? So what, if any, is the connection between Hydra and Water?

It's because I never said "soap is fat." Why do you want to debate with straw men?

[Vraith]

It's because I never said "soap is fat." Why do you want to debate with straw men?

Not fat, but pretty Phat after a week in the wilderness.

Anyway, you can get skin pretty clean just by vigorously rubbing in fat/oil/grease, then scraping it off...though animal has serious shortcomings compared to, say, olive oil.
Not so much good for laundry, though.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

It's because I never said "soap is fat." Why do you want to debate with straw men?

Not fat, but pretty Phat after a week in the wilderness.

Anyway, you can get skin pretty clean just by vigorously rubbing in fat/oil/grease, then scraping it off...though animal has serious shortcomings compared to, say, olive oil.
Not so much good for laundry, though.

Maybe that's how someone decided to include fat. But no soap manufacturer is just going to dump animal fat in the soap recipe, and I never claimed that in the first place. Maybe I should find a way to collect whale vomit and sell it to lipstick manufacturers.