Disturbing

[Worm of Despite]

This book is the #1 bestseller on Amazon.com.

Or maybe it's just American tradition.

[High Lord Tolkien]

It's a one page book.
All it says is: Eat less and exercise.

[Worm of Despite]

Yeah, I guess my disturbed-ness is from there needing to be a book for such a simple function. Oh, how civilization has encroached on natural selection, methinks.

[Orlion]

Oh, how civilization has encroached on natural selection, methinks.

You may lament this, but there's a good chance that the majority of us would be dead by now without the "encroachment" of civilization on natural selection... besides, natural selection doesn't always lead to stronger species or desirable traits (demonstrated by the prominence of sickle-cell anemia in some African populations or the inability of ancient American cultures to fight against pathogens introduced by Europeans).

[Worm of Despite]

Oh, how civilization has encroached on natural selection, methinks.

You may lament this, but there's a good chance that the majority of us would be dead by now without the "encroachment" of civilization on natural selection... besides, natural selection doesn't always lead to stronger species or desirable traits (demonstrated by the prominence of sickle-cell anemia in some African populations or the inability of ancient American cultures to fight against pathogens introduced by Europeans).

Why does everything I say cause a thread to eventually get split? I'm just saying--developed civilization has turned quite a few people into veritable vegetables. Then again, maybe the food-stuffing-into-mouth and collecting body lard trait is a new development. Perhaps we were meant to be giant ticks?

[dANdeLION]

Oh, how civilization has encroached on natural selection, methinks.

That may be. But, I feel that for the most part, we're the undiluted product of natural selection. I know I am, at least.

[lurch]

This book is the #1 bestseller on Amazon.com.

Or maybe it's just American tradition.

Of Course its just American Tradition,,American Hucksterism has not let up over the years and am willing to bet ..that " diet" books have had their " OVER SHARE" on the last 30 years of Best sellers list...So..whats next..well of course, a book on how not to make your wallet thin by paying for yet another diet book...Wait a minute..wait a minute here..

So..like Vain is trying to figure a way around the Grand Hoax,and Foul is looking directly at it. Okay..okay try this Vain/Foul..set up a Charity..global in scale..all donations in human fat..as say from liposuction..are pasteurized then sent off to countries where people are starving. Theres not a looser in the loop. Every one wins!..and who is at the center of it all..why its Vain, with nothing to do but collect his administration costs for running a totally " green" charity..Recycled human fat, Nothing goes to Waist!

[Damelon]

This book is the #1 bestseller on Amazon.com.

Or maybe it's just American tradition.

We're importing a British tradition. He's the "Dr. Phil" of the UK, according to the description.

[Orlion]

Why does everything I say cause a thread to eventually get split? I'm just saying--developed civilization has turned quite a few people into veritable vegetables. Then again, maybe the food-stuffing-into-mouth and collecting body lard trait is a new development. Perhaps we were meant to be giant ticks?

Because what you end up saying is more interesting than the original topic of the thread

[Worm of Despite]

Why does everything I say cause a thread to eventually get split? I'm just saying--developed civilization has turned quite a few people into veritable vegetables. Then again, maybe the food-stuffing-into-mouth and collecting body lard trait is a new development. Perhaps we were meant to be giant ticks?

Because what you end up saying is more interesting than the original topic of the thread

The topic was boring, I agree. And I agree--I create future topics from my interesting insides. *strokes ego* There you go, baby...oh yeah... Excuse me, we need some time alone! The rest of this topic will go to my auto-pleasuring.

*closes curtains*

Okay..okay try this Vain/Foul

Are you suggesting Vain is also me; or that my account is a proxy of his? What Pandora's box have you opened, my good man!? For God's sake--for the peace of us all--don't look too deeply into this issue! I warn you!

[Cambo]

This book is the #1 bestseller on Amazon.com.

Or maybe it's just American tradition.

Of Course its just American Tradition,,American Hucksterism has not let up over the years and am willing to bet ..that " diet" books have had their " OVER SHARE" on the last 30 years of Best sellers list...So..whats next..well of course, a book on how not to make your wallet thin by paying for yet another diet book...Wait a minute..wait a minute here..

So..like Vain is trying to figure a way around the Grand Hoax,and Foul is looking directly at it. Okay..okay try this Vain/Foul..set up a Charity..global in scale..all donations in human fat..as say from liposuction..are pasteurized then sent off to countries where people are starving. Theres not a looser in the loop. Every one wins!..and who is at the center of it all..why its Vain, with nothing to do but collect his administration costs for running a totally " green" charity..Recycled human fat, Nothing goes to Waist!

You might have to pay Chuck Palahniuk royalites...

[TheFallen]

This book is the #1 bestseller on Amazon.com.

Or maybe it's just American tradition.

We're importing a British tradition. He's the "Dr. Phil" of the UK, according to the description.

In reality, not so much of a Dr. Phil as a re-invented pop radio station DJ...

Paul McKenna started in radio aged 16 at in-store Radio Topshop, and went on to present for stations including Radio Jackie, Radio Caroline, Chiltern Radio, Capital Radio and BBC Radio One.

A hypnotist who guested on his show led to a developing interest in the subject, initially for reasons of self-development, although entertainment was later to play a big part. Whilst still working at Capital, he began experimenting with small hypnotic shows, first for the amusement of friends, then for audiences in pubs and clubs. McKenna then started doing regular Sunday night shows at the Duke of York's Theatre, which was owned at the time by Capital. The success of those shows led to his playing other theatres across the UK, Ireland, The Netherlands, the US, Australia and Hong Kong.

After a brief spell at Radio 1 in the early 1990s, McKenna decided to quit radio, which was not his speciality. In 1993, ITV broadcast The Hypnotic World of Paul McKenna, which featured audience members volunteering to be hypnotised to act in comedic ways, the show subsequently being aired in 42 countries.

I'm tempted to try to make money out of a book called "Fat??? Pffft, you're FIT!!!" proving conclusively that fat people are actually the fittest of all. Let's face it, if you're say 50 pounds overweight, you're conducting all your daily activities effectively wearing a 50 pound weighted suit. This must mean that, within the "suit", you're incredibly fit, compared to skinny namby-pambies who don't physically challenge themselves in such a rigorous, consistent and dedicated way.

It's clearly a blockbusting best-seller in the making... what could possibly go wrong?

[aliantha]

I'd buy your book, TheFallen!

[peter]

You won't like this Orlion but in that case most of us deserve to be dead. A small number of highly fit individuals is always preferable to a multitude of unthrifty ones and this is what natural selection provides in it's 'survival of the fittest' stage. It may have been tough - but it worked for a good few hundred thousand years in our case at least. I can't see that our intervention has improved matters to any great degree to be honest. We have 7 billion people and a f****d up world to live in thanks to the advances of 'civilisation'.

[Orlion]

You won't like this Orlion but in that case most of us deserve to be dead.

Why wouldn't I like that? It seems to have been the point of my post

A small number of highly fit individuals is always preferable to a multitude of unthrifty ones and this is what natural selection provides in it's 'survival of the fittest' stage. It may have been tough - but it worked for a good few hundred thousand years in our case at least. I can't see that our intervention has improved matters to any great degree to be honest. We have 7 billion people and a f****d up world to live in thanks to the advances of 'civilisation'.

I'm going to be blunt. I had quotes around encroachment because natural selection always happens. It's methods/paths may be different depending on the environment (Desert Earth will have a different natural selection than Snowball Earth) and is happening to us even within civilization. Being civilized doesn't cancel out natural selection, it still works to produce individuals better capable of living in it. (For example, given enough time, a breed of humans might arise resistant to certain cancers if we all were frequent fliers for a couple thousand years). That's my other point. Natural selection is still happening, but natural selection always only favors those that can survive the current environment (hence, racoons that can eat out of a trash can will survive in the city, while racoons that do not will have to move or die).

[danlo]

...hence the homeless...

It's like all these people that sit on their couches eating chips and chocolate while watching The Biggest Loser saying, "I should go on that program, that will solve all of my problems...".

I should boycott CostCo just for the hell of it (I'm sure they're up to many things politically wrong like over-fishing ) but I just have to look at the their huge piles of Going Rogue and Decision Points to confirm that the vast majority of the American book buying public is brain-dead.

[peter]

I'm sorry, but modern technology - particularly in the field of medicine - does have the power to subvert the process of natural selection. Genes that are artificially maintained within the population eg those responsible for type 1 insulin dependant diabetes, ultimately increase in thier frequency untill they are represented in 100% of individuals and thus the 'fitness' of the population is reduced. This takes time - but it does happen. Now I do not suggest that all medical research should stop or that treatment to normalise peoples lives should be witheld - but I do think a recognition of the limitations of our knowledge and a healthy respect for the systems that nature has developed to order the world is in order. I doubt that we in a few hundred years of study will better those systems developed by nature over millenia. Hackneyd a phrase it may be - but I believe we play at being God at our very grave risk.

[Orlion]

I'm sorry, but modern technology - particularly in the field of medicine - does have the power to subvert the process of natural selection. Genes that are artificially maintained within the population eg those responsible for type 1 insulin dependant diabetes, ultimately increase in thier frequency untill they are represented in 100% of individuals and thus the 'fitness' of the population is reduced. This takes time - but it does happen. Now I do not suggest that all medical research should stop or that treatment to normalise peoples lives should be witheld - but I do think a recognition of the limitations of our knowledge and a healthy respect for the systems that nature has developed to order the world is in order. I doubt that we in a few hundred years of study will better those systems developed by nature over millenia. Hackneyd a phrase it may be - but I believe we play at being God at our very grave risk.

Medical technology is part of the system, peter. Much like if you happened to live in a place with cancer-fighting berries, your body wouldn't have as much cancer-fighting capabilities as those who live in Cancerland. I always think it's funny that we (humans) are suppose to be somehow outside of nature

[Vraith]

I'm sorry, but modern technology - particularly in the field of medicine - does have the power to subvert the process of natural selection. Genes that are artificially maintained within the population eg those responsible for type 1 insulin dependant diabetes, ultimately increase in thier frequency untill they are represented in 100% of individuals and thus the 'fitness' of the population is reduced. This takes time - but it does happen. Now I do not suggest that all medical research should stop or that treatment to normalise peoples lives should be witheld - but I do think a recognition of the limitations of our knowledge and a healthy respect for the systems that nature has developed to order the world is in order. I doubt that we in a few hundred years of study will better those systems developed by nature over millenia. Hackneyd a phrase it may be - but I believe we play at being God at our very grave risk.

That's interesting, and leads to some funny places. For instance, natural selection is directly responsible for selecting those people capable of creating the technology/knowledge that allows us to alter natural selection.
And part of the reason we have a rising weight problem is that we're bio-wired to prefer those things that make us fat...they're very high energy, and fat storage is a survival trait...but we don't have to physically work as hard to survive, and starvation isn't a persistent threat to most people anymore. Just ordinary living used to require enough energy to make most of us thinnish, muscular, and efficient. Nowadays most of us have to schedule energy burning activity.
I'm not sure [as someone suggested] that we'll naturally select for cancer immunity [though it's possible...even likely... we could scientifically do it] because few cancers kill young, there isn't really a biological/environmental pressure to be immune to cancer.
And we're on the verge of a couple potentially catastrophic [but, depending on speed/timing, potentially amazing] techno-social 'natural' selection trends. A situation where a large majority of peeps simply aren't smart enough for really 'good' jobs, where many of the 'good jobs' don't require people, or only a very few people [not just manual labor, but doctors, engineers, line-scientists, most high-tech things [software/hardware, for instance]]. The potential plus side of this is that automated technology/energy/productivity/efficiency may free people to do what they want/love instead of spending their lives in jobs they hate.
And I believe, for a number of reasons, that this situation is a lot closer than most people think. It's gonna change the world...and I predict an ugly transitional period for a whole bunch of peeps...a big enough change that the people 'selected' will be a noticeably different kind of human. [As a whole, in aggregate].

[Avatar]

Hey, didn't we just start talking about this in the 'Tank? Natural selection and all?

Medical technology will prevent us from selecting for disease resistance, because treatment will mean that even people who are not resistant can survive and thrive.

--A