JULY 12TH!!!!!!

[dANdeLION]

It'n not a matter of trust to me. It's a matter of inevitability. GRRM is 62, and every picture I've seen of him over the last 25 years shows he's overweight. GRRM could easily pass before finishing ASOIAF, which, given his current rate of production, won't be finished until he's in his mid-70's. That would be a damn shame. Having said that, I am extremely happy the new book will be out July 12, and I do believe that date.

Donaldson, on the other hand, has always taken care of himself, and isn't as easily distracted as GRRM, so I have no worries about him.

[SerScot]

___,

Good Grief.

I simply get tired of people bitching and moaning about the time it takes to write his novel as though they are out something because the book hasn't appeared yet.

If it's so tiring, maybe you should quit.

Quite what? Being irritated at the bitching and moaing about the time it take to finish a book in ASOIAF?

As for GRRM's age, nothing we can do about that. Urging him to write faster will not help.

[Orlion]

As for GRRM's age, nothing we can do about that. Urging him to write faster will not help.

Yeah! If we've learned anything from Stephen King, it's that a good accident involving a car is what helps finish a series!

[dANdeLION]

Quite what? Being irritated at the bitching and moaing about the time it take to finish a book in ASOIAF?

No. Quit catagorizing my (and other people's) honest concerns as "bitching and moaning". It's rude and condescending.

[SerScot]

Orlion,

As for GRRM's age, nothing we can do about that. Urging him to write faster will not help.

Yeah! If we've learned anything from Stephen King, it's that a good accident involving a car is what helps finish a series!

And, from what I understand, the quality of "The Dark Tower" went down after the accident and the rush to complete the work, isn't that correct?

___,

No. Quit catagorizing my (and other people's) honest concerns as "bitching and moaning". It's rude and condescending.

What would you call it then? Quality writting is not simply putting the words on the page. It's not like chaining GRRM to his word processer a la Misery will get you the product you want to read. It's not as simple as that.

[Orlion]

Orlion,

As for GRRM's age, nothing we can do about that. Urging him to write faster will not help.

Yeah! If we've learned anything from Stephen King, it's that a good accident involving a car is what helps finish a series!

And, from what I understand, the quality of "The Dark Tower" went down after the accident and the rush to complete the work, isn't that correct?

Laugh with me, SerScot, joy is in the ears that hear! (This translates into I haven't read Dark Tower either, so I don't know.)

Why do I discuss these things when I haven't read them? It gives me an opportunity to ponder the author-reader relationship, and the responsibilities, if any, one has for the other.

I, for one, am trying to locate a copy of Tuff Voyaging.

[dANdeLION]

Orlion,

As for GRRM's age, nothing we can do about that. Urging him to write faster will not help.

Yeah! If we've learned anything from Stephen King, it's that a good accident involving a car is what helps finish a series!

And, from what I understand, the quality of "The Dark Tower" went down after the accident and the rush to complete the work, isn't that correct?

Yes, that's exactly the point. King put DT on the back burner, taking 16 years to complete the first 4 books. Then, at the age of 51, catastrophe struck, and he rushed out the last 3 books over a period of 2 years, fearing he would die before he finished. This is exactly what I fear might happen to GRRM.

[SerScot]

Orlion,

Orlion,

Yeah! If we've learned anything from Stephen King, it's that a good accident involving a car is what helps finish a series!

And, from what I understand, the quality of "The Dark Tower" went down after the accident and the rush to complete the work, isn't that correct?

Laugh with me, SerScot, joy is in the ears that hear! (This translates into I haven't read Dark Tower either, so I don't know.)

Why do I discuss these things when I haven't read them? It gives me an opportunity to ponder the author-reader relationship, and the responsibilities, if any, one has for the other.

I, for one, am trying to locate a copy of Tuff Voyaging.

I found a 1983 edition in a used bookstore on the NC outer banks in 1985. I've had it signed.



___,

As I said above shit happens. Look at Robert Jordan, may he rest in peace. I don't believe GRRM is going to rush anything. If he finishes he finishes, if he doesn't he doesn't.

Frank Herbert died before he could finish the Dune series. In all honesty I like the ending of Chapterhouse: Dune. It's open ended leaving the reader the freedom to speculate about where the story will end.

[danlo]

I have a copy of Tuf Voyaging, but the AFFC and Hunter's Run on either side of it may be all that's saving it from falling apart...LOL

[aliantha]

Aliantha,

How can he "Stiff" you "Again" when this is the first time he's made a solid promise without qualification that the book will be released on X date?

Here's the thing about GRRM. I put off reading AFFC for several years because the scuttlebutt was that it was really the first half of a novel and not much happened in it. So I figured I'd wait 'til Book 4, Part 2 was released and read them both together. Well, time went on, and Book 4, Part 2 was delayed over and over again. I'm not a big enough fan of GRRM to follow his blog or hang out at a discussion forum on his books (I don't even hang out at a Malazan forum, and I'm a bigger fan of Erikson than I am of GRRM). So I don't really know all the politics behind whatever promises have been made and/or broken and by whom. As far as I'm concerned, GRRM's been leaving me hanging since ASOS came out, which was, what, 2003? (I did eventually break down and read AFFC, and it was okay, but it didn't leave me champing at the bit for ADWD.)

If George had not let on that AFFC was essentially the first half of a larger book, I wouldn't be so annoyed with him for taking so long to release the second half. (And yes, I might well drop the series at this point, depending on the reviews ADWD receives.) If he'd done with AFFC what SRD did with the 2nd Chrons -- just let them stand alone and not let on that he was planning to write more someday -- then I wouldn't be nearly as frustrated.

As an aside, I'm seeing a tendency by fantasy authors these days to write bigger and bigger books that must be split over more than one volume. ASoIaF is one case in point, and Malazan is another. Yeah, Malazan's a huge world and so on. But Erikson originally envisioned the series to be 9 books, not 10 -- DoD and TCG were to be one work. Granted that he had a ton of loose ends to tie up, and I'm not sure what he could have cut out of the end result to make it one book. But still, I had to wait an extra year for the satisfying payoff.

Also, Erikson writes *fast*. Telling fans that one book has to be split in two isn't too awful if they only have to wait a year for the second half of the book. Telling fans that one book will be two, and then taking years to release the second book? Not a smart move for maintaining your fan base (as SRD is discovering to his sorrow, I think -- there's no doubt that sales for the 3rd Chrons would have been higher if he'd written them ten or 15 years ago -- plus his writing style wouldn't have evolved so much in the interim, thereby pissing off numerous fans who expected a certain tone from a Covenant book that they didn't get in Runes).

You're right that GRRM has the right to write, or not write, whatever he damn well pleases. But ___ is right -- GRRM has said that he plans more volumes in ASoIaF, and I'm sure at least one of those will be too sprawling to be contained in one book as well. Questions about Martin's health aside, how likely is it that he'll ever finish this project?

I mean, who among us isn't still feeling a teensy bit shortchanged because George Lucas will never make the last three Star Wars movies? It's the same thing with Martin. But at least Lucas was honest with us.

[I'm Murrin]

Ali, I'm pretty sure I read way way back that Erikson had 10 titles for books and 9 plots for them, in case it turned out he had to expand on stuff, and that the extra unplanned volume was Midnight Tides.

[dANdeLION]

mean, who among us isn't still feeling a teensy bit shortchanged because George Lucas will never make the last three Star Wars movies? It's the same thing with Martin. But at least Lucas was honest with us.

Return of the Jedi killed my desire to see any more Star Wars movies. The theatrical re-release was cool for me because I had a kid who was in awe of the movies. The 2nd three movies were fun for my kids, so they were fun for me. The only thing that could get me to see 3 more movies would be grandkids; I certainly have no desire to see them for myself.

[aliantha]

Murrin, you clearly know more about this stuff than I do. The first time I had an inkling that there would be a tenth book was in the author's note at the beginning of DoD.

___, so, was it the Ewoks that did you in? I remember thinking, back in the day, what a great zillion-hour movie marathon it would be to watch all nine Star Wars moves in order. And then Lucas said he was going to do the prequels and quit, and I was sad. But then the prequels were kind of awful, so I wasn't sad any more. (It wasn't even Jar-Jar Binks that did it for me -- it was finding out later that Natalie Portman could actually act....)

[The Sorcerer King]

It's all relative. aTOMiC could have written Flower of Doom in a week, but if you calculated the "time spent writing to quality of the end product" ratio, and then compared that to Martin's work, you might realize that an extra 5 years is easily worth waiting for.

[dANdeLION]

That is an excellent point. And thank you for not accusing me of writing FoD.

[SerScot]

Aliantha,

After seeing the prequels I really have no desire to see the "follow on" trilogy to the orginal Star Wars. The prequels sucked, big time.

[Akasri]

I just hope after all this wait that the book lives up to anything even close to the quality of A Storm of Swords. My fear is that he's wandered too much and then rushed it to get it done and the quality will suffer... I guess time will tell, but I will be reading it I know

So... when do the final two (three?) books come out?

[SerScot]

Akasri,

Two more Books, The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring. This means we should be on the downward slop of the story now and that quite a few POVs shouldn't make it to TWoW.

[Akasri]

Oh good, so only 10 more years or so to wait to finish this off

[SerScot]

Akasri,

Oh good, so only 10 more years or so to wait to finish this off

Assuming it takes 5 years on each book. We'll see. I hope ADWD was plot and narrative wise the most difficult book to write.