Illearth War more puissance then 3rd chrons

[Avatar]

TIW was always my favourite of the 1st Chrons. On my last read though, I really started leaning toward TPTP. Of them all though, I think The Wounded Land is the most striking for me.

It always makes me think of that quote about how to hurt somebody who has lost everything: Give him back something broken.

--A

[ussusimiel]

Avatar Wrote:

It always makes me think of that quote about how to hurt somebody who has lost everything: Give him back something broken.

I have always liked that quote as well. Years later I heard it echoed in a Bob Dylan's song, 'Tryin' To Get To Heaven':

When you think that you've lost everything
You find out you can always lose a little more

Great Minds!

[Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm]

I went down all the way, then someone knocked on my floor

- Stanisław Jerzy Lec. Though that's more about the second one, the first one, from the chrons, differs a lot, it's more on the means for that. The translation is mine, I've seen that one translated, but the phrasing seemed wrong.

And I have to say I don't find the 3rd chrons worse - different, yes, but no way worse.

[ussusimiel]

I went down all the way, then someone knocked on my floor
- Stanisław Jerzy Lec.

Love the quote, Effaeldm

I have told a few friends and they were deeply impressed with my knowledge

[jonnyredleader]

I read TIW first too, was found in a box abandoned and looked interesting. Stayed on the shelf for a while and when I started reading it thought it was ok until covenant meets the high lord and then I found it so different to other fantasy books I'd read I was hooked. I consumed the rest of the book over a few days reading well into the night, it was an emotional rollercoaster. It's my favourite because it's epic and has so many stories intertwined. Loved the bloodguard coming back and giving updates on the failed missions, TC and Elena, Mhoram and hile etc lots all happening at the same time and all comes together in a huge and emotional finale. Easily my favourite in the series.

[jonnyredleader]

Have to agree i liked reading it first, strangely was more compelling to hear of TC's crimes and exploits through others rather than being there in LFB. My imagination filled in the rest and I was desperate to know what had happened, it read a lot like a fantasy mystery novel which given SRDs other books kinda makes sense.

[ussusimiel]

Hi jonnyreadleader, well met!

I'm with you about the epic nature of TIW. None of the rest of the books have quite that sweep about them. The multiple locations, the number of significant characters, the large scale battles, and SRD handles them with such authority and assurance.

Epic is the word!

u.

[jonnyredleader]

))) good to meet you!
I could read that book again and again. In LFB the plot is pretty linear and follows TC without any real deviation, TPTP does have a couple of side stories but they feel incidental rather than integral. I loved how Srd used the bloodguard to keep a staggered update on the quest and how by the end we learn the giants won't be coming to the warwards aid, the slow attrition of the warward itself and hile's realisation that he is going to lose the battle, plus the mystery quest intrigue with amok and the totally fascination interactions and unrequited love story between TC and Elena.
I've never read anything that had me page turning with such an emotional connection before or since. My dog eared copy of the Illearth war is one of my most precious posessions. Ive spilt tears, rage, despair, love and so many other emotions over that paper back.

[ussusimiel]

Yes, it's definitely the one I dip into the most.

it read a lot like a fantasy mystery novel

You are right about this with regard to Amok. There is a strong element of the mystery novel about it. And later at Rivenrock, Covenant's cross-examination of Bannor has something of the courtroom drama about it. SDR was definitely drawing on all his writing powers when he wrote TIW.

I also always enjoy the parts with Hile Troy. The breathtaking daring of the plan (although I've read a few criticisms of it). The heroism of the Warward. The vastness of Foul's army. The scene on Kevin's Watch (the real one ) and the desperation of the retreat towards Garroting Deep. It all just shines with excitement and significance. Its a supremely well written big adventure.

Spoiler

I'm reading FR for the first time at the moment. I'm coming towards the end of Part 1 and even though all the action is taking place in much of the same terrain it has none of the same resonance for me. How did you feel about it when you read it?

Have you read Gilden-Fire? I was just posting about it on the main Gilden-Fire thread. It's another good place if you want to revel in the glories of TIW.

u.

[jonnyredleader]

Yeah there is actually quite a lot of that in his books, rivenrock does stand out and I know what you mean about the courtroom drama. My mum watches alot of murder mysteries and some of the dialogue between covenant and troy reads like the end scenes where the intrepid detective does the big reveal, questioning other characters with logic and reason

I did seek out gildenfire a long time ago and can barely remember it, I might have to pick up a copy, i would love to have seen a copy of the unedited TIW before the publisher made Srd change some aspects.

[ussusimiel]

i would love to have seen a copy of the unedited TIW before the publisher made Srd change some aspects

There was a bit of discussion recently about that on the Gilden-Fire thread. I've laid out my views there so I won't repeat them other than to say that opinion is divided (what's new ) about whether an unedited TIW would be better than the published version.

[marineguy]

I read the IEW too by accident. I was reading another series and the next book still wasn't ready so I grabbed the first one I cold to read home on the train from work. I couldn't put it down. when I finished I picked up the first one just to catch up and couldn't wait to find the third.

Glad I did because I don't know if I would have continued after finding out he was a rapist and the main guy in the past was named "Kevin", I mean really, Kevin? It may as well have been Todd or Erwin, or Chad....

[ussusimiel]

Hi marineguy, nice to meet a Watcher I haven't met before.

I was reading some of the Structured Interviews on SRD's site and one of the things he said was that to increase his chances of being published he wrote each of the three books of the 1st Chronicles as a stand-alone story. It seems to have worked because I have heard a few people on the Watch say that they started with TIW and then went back to LFB.

I think TIW is a great one to start with as well because of its storytelling strengths. It has a richness and variety of places and characters that few fantasy novels I know of can match. I'm beginning to think that this might be a really good way to introduce people to the Chrons in general without having to risk the possible alienating effect of the start of LFB (and also to give people who don't like the poor Erwin's or Chad's of this world a chance to get into the books )

BTW, Kevin is probably a really exotic name in the Land. Is there any other character with a similarly unLandlike name?

u.

[Orlion]

I've come to the conclusion that people who stop after LFB because of the rape are mostly hypocrites. Seriously, they'll read worse stuff in the same vein and be fine with it, but a couple paragraphs of it in LFB? Now somehow that's going too far!

(I know not everyone is like this, but so many are, I just introduce the series without any disclaimers. If they like it, they like it. I don't lose anything.)

[marineguy]

I'll give you a [perfect example. My wife read the series starting with the first one. The main objection to re-reading it she says is because he is a miserable human being. It's not only the rape, he's a very negative guy and throughout the books just when you think he might have some socially redeeming values, he blows it again and reverts back to being the bastard. On the other hand it's what kept her reading! Chapter after chapter, book after book she kept waiting for him to redeem himself or gain the use of the ring, or become the "hero". It never really happens until the end. So it's a two edge sword. Most people really hate him. I have to admit he is the first anti-hero I ever read about when I started and it kept me reading too.

Then in book two, he has the power but is powerless and then we have Linden who is not really much of a hero either. It's really about the poeple surrounding him, THEY are the hero's.

I have not read the last series and won't until I have all the books so I can just keep reading. I've read some of the plot and storyline so I can't wait.

[ussusimiel]

I've come to the conclusion that people who stop after LFB because of the rape are mostly hypocrites. Seriously, they'll read worse stuff in the same vein and be fine with it, but a couple paragraphs of it in LFB? Now somehow that's going too far!

I understand what you mean without it being my experience (that said I have only introduced the books to a few people). People will read Stephen King, Michael Connelly and Patricia Cornwell or books about real-life serial killers but ask them to read a nasty scene in a fantasy novel and they baulk. It may have something to do with the perception of fantasy as 'escapist'. Blame Tolkien for that.

In saying that, the fantasy that I like usually grapples with some theme or material that I find stimulating and relevant; Roger Taylor's 'Chronicles of Hawklan' were the first fantasy novels that I read that dealt overtly with the problem of war. Pure escapism doesn't get more that a cursory glance from me. I can read a bit of heroic fantasy like David Gemmell but not a lot.

I suppose introducing people to the Chrons via TIW is a way of trying to hook people in so that their preconceptions are blown away by SRD's brilliance. However, if a person is a hypocrite I don't think that they will like TCTC anyway, because if there is one thing that there is little room for in the series, it's dishonesty.

Then in book two, he has the power but is powerless and then we have Linden who is not really much of a hero either. It's really about the poeple surrounding him, THEY are the hero's.

I'm with you all the way on this. Yes, Covenant and Linden come through in the end, but all through the books it is the ordinary Land-folk that are more what we are used to as heroes/heroines: Atiaran, Lena, Mhoram, Shetra, Rue, Hollian, Seadreamer, Brinn etc. This is what makes the books such a pleasure to read. We get endless regular heroism alongside the the less comfortable, more existential struggles of Covenant and Linden.

And it's the contrast that helps make the books so good. We keep wanting Linden and Covenant to behave like the people around them and their refusal to do so constantly reminds us that they, like us, are different because they come from our reality.

u.

[SleeplessOne]

BTW, Kevin is probably a really exotic name in the Land. Is there any other character with a similarly unLandlike name?

u.

Lord Trevor !!
Also, there is a Laura in LFB ..

[Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm]

Isn't Elena a normal real-life name? One of the main characters, and with some serious connection to Kevin. That may even mean there's a meaning to all that thing with names like that - I believe there was already a discussion on that somewhere, even if only about Kevin.

[Vraith]

"There are those who call me....Tim."
oh...wait...wrong quest fantasy...
Elena is, yes...as is Lena.

I think there's a Garth...[though maybe I'm just mixing Gart, from other Man and Mirror].

[ussusimiel]

Hi SleeplessOne,

It's good to meet you.

So, Kevin, Elena, Lena, Trevor and Garth so far.

Isn't Elena a normal real-life name? One of the main characters, and with some serious connection to Kevin. That may even mean there's a meaning to all that thing with names like that

It's interesting that there might be some connection between the ordinary names and the meaning of the story. It never occurred to me before. It may be that the more ordinary the name the more the character is like someone in our reality. Hmmmm.

u.