The debt he's paying on is not new. The debt he will incur to make those payments is new. That new debt is not authorized by law and as such the President may not incur it without the permission of Congress.
That's silly. You cannot call the inevitable result of what you've already agreed to something "new." It can be argued, I suppose that that's what the rules SAY [though even that's a stretch] but it is like arguing that "I am adding yellow to blue, which may appear to be approving the making of green, but there will not actually BE any green, or approval thereof, until I SAY green is authorized." No matter the words, you end up with a big pile of green.
Less odd: you by a washing machine with your credit card. If you then pay off that credit card with another credit card, is that "new debt?"
No damn way.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler] the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass. "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
I'm confused SS. The issue is if the debt ceiling is not raised, there's talk about not paying bills, right now. Bills for spending approved at last budget. I'm not sure what is new?
--Andy
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
As soon as the new card takes over the earlier debt to the earlier company is extinguished because it paid off the earlier debt. The new card is a completely new debt.
It's the same thing that happens when a mortgage is refinanced by a new mortgage holder. The earlier mortgage is satisfied and a new mortgage results. It is a new debt.
Cybr,
The issue is the manner in which the existing debt will be paid. The President is authorized to use existing revenues. He just can't incur new debt to pay existing debt without Congresional authorization.
"Futility is the defining characteristic of life. Pain is proof of existence" - Thomas Covenant
As soon as the new card takes over the earlier debt to the earlier company is extinguished because it paid off the earlier debt. The new card is a completely new debt.
It's the same thing that happens when a mortgage is refinanced by a new mortgage holder. The earlier mortgage is satisfied and a new mortgage results. It is a new debt.
Cybr,
The issue is the manner in which the existing debt will be paid. The President is authorized to use existing revenues. He just can't incur new debt to pay existing debt without Congresional authorization.
That's just sophistry SS. Changed who you are paying, hopefully the refinance saved a bit on the amount...but the debt is the same, it's for your house...which you agreed to pay for, and still owe for [is every month's interest charge "new debt?."
And on what you said to Cybr: well, the revenues aren't enough for everything. And [just to try a different angle]...in the real world, not paying for everything you owe in itself generates new debt. Nothing you can do about it, whether it is authorized or not, there it is.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler] the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass. "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
It's not "sophistry". Different parties. Different debt insturments. Different debt. In order for the debt to be "authorized by law" it must be authorized by Congress.
Last edited by SerScot on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Futility is the defining characteristic of life. Pain is proof of existence" - Thomas Covenant
Oh goodness. What a surprise. So what? Raised the ceiling a bit?
They can call it a deal all they want to. But it really depends on who gets put on that committee. It might be a negotiation team.
But [mark this, I'm calling it] I predict that what it really is is just a ceasefire while they rearm, resupply, reload.
I hope I'm wrong...I hope the MAD of automatic cuts they're pointing at each other are enough. But I'm not holding my breath.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler] the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass. "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
I'm not either, but I think you are spot-on, Vraith.
Basically, they screamed at each other a lot about how America can't afford to kick the can down the road -- and then they kicked the can down the road. "Sound and fury, signifying nothing."
EZ Board Survivor
"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
Well, a random radio DJ for classic rock station mentioned on air the "historic" deal made on Monday. People have no clue, so politicians take advantage.
--Andy
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
Well, a random radio DJ for classic rock station mentioned on air the "historic" deal made on Monday. People have no clue, so politicians take advantage.
Figures. But how can one really follow politics without all the noise these days? The last time I watched politics, the news commentators following said that Obama had no real power, that the whole thing was orchestrated to make him look bad, and that it was time for the "real leaders" in America to make changes to how things were.
WTF? THIS WAS PRIMETIME NEWS AND THEY WERE BABBLING. The commercial cut to kids jumping on a bed, IIRC, slightly before ethe newsguy finished. Perfect timing.
Oh goodness. What a surprise. So what? Raised the ceiling a bit?
They can call it a deal all they want to. But it really depends on who gets put on that committee. It might be a negotiation team.
But [mark this, I'm calling it] I predict that what it really is is just a ceasefire while they rearm, resupply, reload.
I hope I'm wrong...I hope the MAD of automatic cuts they're pointing at each other are enough. But I'm not holding my breath.
Well, it's not working; Wall Street rallied briefly but again the stock market is on the decline. Unless something drastic happens the market is on the way to collapse.
I'm off to night class soon, and will chat to one of the economic specialists there; he may have some insight. Last week he thought things were looking pretty bad.
Waddley wrote:your Highness Sir Dr. Loredoctor, PhD, Esq, the Magnificent, First of his name, Second Cousin of Dragons, White-Gold-Plate Wielder!
Yea, the economy is still in a bad state. Not just in US, other countries as well. The austerity measures in some European countries, like UK, are not helping matters.
--Andy
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur."
Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
I believe in the One who says there is life after this.
Now tell me how much more open can my mind be?
Loremaster wrote:
Well, it's not working; Wall Street rallied briefly but again the stock market is on the decline. Unless something drastic happens the market is on the way to collapse.
I'm off to night class soon, and will chat to one of the economic specialists there; he may have some insight. Last week he thought things were looking pretty bad.
It is bad, but without the delay they call a deal it would have been much worse...or maybe just more shocking, like a massive explosion instead of rising waters. The last good reports that might help market/eco I heard were 2 or 3 days before I started this thread.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler] the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass. "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
