Not to put too fine a point on it, but what folks are complaining about in Stranger's latter parts is not Heinlein pandering to the times. That novel was written by him much earlier than its year of publication. Correspondence published in Grumbles From The Grave shows that both he and his editors/publishers knew that the novel could not be released at the time. The pendulum of the times swung his way about 45 years ago, the novel finally saw daylight, and (as we all know) prevailing views have subsequently shifted again.
I am not familiar enough with Le Guin to know what bounds she stretched or when...but I know that there are Watchers who can step in and clarify that if need be.
Returning to RAH, yes, most of the output of his latter years shows a tendency to trod the same soft core themes and the same cast of characters into the ground. There are flashes of brilliance in most of these books, but there is a lot of mining to be done to find them. For those of us who cut our teeth on his stellar earlier output, reading the products of his declining years was a bittersweet experience.
NPR's Top 100 SF/Fantasy Books - vote for SRD!
Moderator: I'm Murrin
-
aliantha
- blueberries on steroids
- Posts: 17865
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 7:50 pm
- Location: NOT opening up a restaurant in Santa Fe
The ex-husband was a big Piers Anthony fan. I read a bunch of them, plus some of his other works. The first few Xanth books were clever, but after that I got tired of them. I thought his "Incarnations of Immortality" series was okay, but I wouldn't go out of my way to read it again.race2three wrote:Aliantha, I noticed you said that piers anthony "squeaked in" does that mean you do or don't like the xanth books?
EZ Board Survivor
"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
https://www.hearth-myth.com/
-
race2three
- Stonedownor
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:59 pm
- Location: Georgia
I liked the first couple of Xanth books as well...and the Incarnations of Immortality...but I liked the Adept books the best....I know what you mean about piers anthony though...after awhile the puns get old...and even though he creates worlds with so many different beings and things to see...it seems like he kinda ran out of things to do there....
-
aliantha
- blueberries on steroids
- Posts: 17865
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 7:50 pm
- Location: NOT opening up a restaurant in Santa Fe
Once he started relying heavily on his fans to supply him with puns, I kind of lost interest....
EZ Board Survivor
"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
https://www.hearth-myth.com/
-
Vraith
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 10623
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
- Location: everywhere, all the time
- Been thanked: 3 times
I think Stranger is great, just not top 100 ever. The Incarnations I enjoyed immensely, too.
His best book in many ways is one that AFAIR the only person I know of who's read it besides me is Worm of the World's End. "Macroscope."
But here's something I wondered:
How many have you [all of you] read?
I've read 88 of the 100 on the list. [counting series as a single entry, just as they did].
His best book in many ways is one that AFAIR the only person I know of who's read it besides me is Worm of the World's End. "Macroscope."
But here's something I wondered:
How many have you [all of you] read?
I've read 88 of the 100 on the list. [counting series as a single entry, just as they did].
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
-
I'm Murrin
- Are you?
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
- Location: North East, UK
- Contact:
-
[Syl]
- Unfettered One
- Posts: 13021
- Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:36 am
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 1 time
33.
I also enjoyed the Incarnations series (except the last one). And the Blue Adept ones. The Space Tyrant books weren't too bad, either, and Xanth was decent before he turned it into a cash cow. Stand alone, I'd go with Shade of the Tree. (growing up, my local library had a lot of Piers Anthony)
I also enjoyed the Incarnations series (except the last one). And the Blue Adept ones. The Space Tyrant books weren't too bad, either, and Xanth was decent before he turned it into a cash cow. Stand alone, I'd go with Shade of the Tree. (growing up, my local library had a lot of Piers Anthony)
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
-
Vraith
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 10623
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
- Location: everywhere, all the time
- Been thanked: 3 times
Heh...mine had lots of Anthony, lots of Clarke, the first Dune book, Asimov's robots and Foundation [what existed to that point]...and that's all...no other sf/fantasy at all.[Syl] wrote: (growing up, my local library had a lot of Piers Anthony)
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
-
aliantha
- blueberries on steroids
- Posts: 17865
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 7:50 pm
- Location: NOT opening up a restaurant in Santa Fe
I've read 45, counting the same way Murrin did.
EZ Board Survivor
"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
https://www.hearth-myth.com/
-
Orlion
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 6666
- Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:30 am
- Location: Getting there...
- Been thanked: 1 time
32... 31 if you won't count SoIaF since I've only read A Game of Thrones 
Own a bunch of the others (none of them Gaimen...) and I finally noticed World War Z made the list. The hell? I mean, I did enjoy it, but within the top 100?
Own a bunch of the others (none of them Gaimen...) and I finally noticed World War Z made the list. The hell? I mean, I did enjoy it, but within the top 100?'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
-
Orlion
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 6666
- Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:30 am
- Location: Getting there...
- Been thanked: 1 time
Have you read 'The Mists of Avalon'? I'd like to get a guy's perspective, if I couldSerScot wrote:I've read 39 of the top picks.
I will read it, I just want to figure out when.
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
-
Vraith
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 10623
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
- Location: everywhere, all the time
- Been thanked: 3 times
I quite liked Mists of Avalon...but the related other books were pretty weak.Orlion wrote:Have you read 'The Mists of Avalon'? I'd like to get a guy's perspective, if I couldSerScot wrote:I've read 39 of the top picks.
I will read it, I just want to figure out when.
In a lot of ways it's known as a "feminist take" on the tale...and there is some of that in there...but there are more important "issues" in it.
On top of that, the most important thing IMHO, the depth/motivations of the characters, male and female, exceed the originals and any "retelling" that maintained the period/setting. [Things like that silly series by the woman who claimed to be Jim Morrison's lady, basically "Arthur In SPACE!" with starships shaped like dragons...what a load of crap].
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
-
Orlion
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 6666
- Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:30 am
- Location: Getting there...
- Been thanked: 1 time
Thanks, Vraith! By my research, it seems like the rest of the books are 'prequels' anyway (aka, not necessary).Vraith wrote:I quite liked Mists of Avalon...but the related other books were pretty weak.Orlion wrote:Have you read 'The Mists of Avalon'? I'd like to get a guy's perspective, if I couldSerScot wrote:I've read 39 of the top picks.
I will read it, I just want to figure out when.
In a lot of ways it's known as a "feminist take" on the tale...and there is some of that in there...but there are more important "issues" in it.
On top of that, the most important thing IMHO, the depth/motivations of the characters, male and female, exceed the originals and any "retelling" that maintained the period/setting. [Things like that silly series by the woman who claimed to be Jim Morrison's lady, basically "Arthur In SPACE!" with starships shaped like dragons...what a load of crap].
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
-
Fist and Faith
- Magister Vitae
- Posts: 25426
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
- Has thanked: 9 times
- Been thanked: 57 times
-
sgt.null
- Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
- Posts: 48330
- Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
- Location: Brazoria, Texas
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 10 times
I have read 22...Orlion wrote: and I finally noticed World War Z made the list. The hell? I mean, I did enjoy it, but within the top 100?
orlion - World War Z is the best zombie book ever. one of the best 'end of the world' books I have ever read. i wish they would make a series out o fit on hbo. it is well thought out novel, going through the real world hows and ways that would be associated with zombies.
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
-
I'm Murrin
- Are you?
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
- Location: North East, UK
- Contact:
Brad Pitt is shooting the movie right now in Edinburgh.sgt.null wrote:orlion - World War Z is the best zombie book ever. one of the best 'end of the world' books I have ever read. i wish they would make a series out o fit on hbo. it is well thought out novel, going through the real world hows and ways that would be associated with zombies.