Depression

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... I do think there is a big difference between the two states. Being an active participant in your own happiness, versus postponing your decision to be happy until *this* happens, then *that* happens...

Ok, I think I'm with you. I equated "working at it" with postponing it. But describing it as being an active participant is better I think.

Yes, you have to actively participate in your own happiness. But I think that what's important to understand is that your happiness is right there. It's in the same place as your depression is. You just have to let it out.

--A

[lucimay]

I suspect we agree on this, but I do think there is a big difference between the two states. Being an active participant in your own happiness, versus postponing your decision to be happy until *this* happens, then *that* happens...
One is simple acceptance of the responsibility that you have a major part in affecting change in your own life for the things that you control, coupled with being grateful for what you have (whether it is much or little), coupled with surrounding yourself with people that add to your energy instead of depleting it, coupled with the realization that there are things and people simply beyond your control, coupled with the knowing yourself well enough to recognize what truly gives you joy, coupled with the freedom to pursue it.
The other is simply an abdication of control over your own state, until someone or something 'makes' you happy. For people that believe the grass is always greener somewhere else, its because they keep killing it where they stand.

yes. you've got it. thats it exactly. it's what struck me about the quote because i tend to be that kind of person who is waiting waiting waiting for that thing or those things that will "make" me happy....and knowing that that is not correct. so when i read the quote it was like...oh YEAH! that's right! i have to participate in that! no one person, no one thing, no perfect state of whatever is going to MAKE me happy. i have to participate, surround myself with, do those things that give me the most joy, and appreciate, and give back and...well all that stuff you said.
and when i read the quote it was like a reminder of something i already knew.

i am a worry wart. i worry a lot. i have had, for most of my life, a lot of things to worry over. so i got into the bad habit of worrying. i'm trying to learn how to not worry without allowing shit to pile up and overwhelm me.
cause in the past not worrying meant shoving it into the closet and pretending it'd go away. we all know THAT doesn't work. so i know there is a balance. i'm looking for the balance. actively attempting to participate.

[Fist and Faith]

I'm surprised I've never posted all my favorite Happiness quotes in this thread.

I saw Dina at the party tonight. She smiled brightly and said, "This year I decided to give up suffering."

-Hugh Prather

A fool is “happy” when his cravings are satisfied. A warrior is happy without reason.

-Dan Millman's Way of the Peaceful Warrior

There is no way to happiness - happiness is the way.

-Buddha

In the true order of things one does not do something in order to be happy - one is happy and, hence, does something. One does not do some things in order to be compassionate, one is compassionate and, hence, acts in a certain way. The soul’s decision precedes the body’s action in a highly conscious person. Only an unconscious person attempts to produce a state of the soul through something the body is doing.

-Neale Donald Walsch's Conversations With God

Pleasures conceived in the world of the senses have a beginning and an end and give birth to misery, Arjuna. The wise do not look for happiness in them. But those who overcome the impulses of lust and anger which arise in the body are made whole and live in joy. They find their joy, their rest, and their light completely within themselves.

-Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita

Happiness is not a state to arrive at, but a manner of traveling.

-Margaret Lee Runbeck

Oh, ho, listen, Man, and we'll tell you everything! Do you hear the waves whispering the secret? We know you know, Man. The secret of life is just sheer joy, and joy is everywhere. Joy is what we were made for. It is in the rush of the nighttime surf and in the beach rocks and in the salt and the air and in the water we breathe and deep, deep within the blood. And the sifting ocean sands and the wriggling silverfish and the hooded greens of the shallows and the purple deeps and in the oyster's crusty shell and the pink reefs and even in the muck of the ocean's floor, joy, joy, joy!

-Neverness

[Avatar]

I saw Dina at the party tonight. She smiled brightly and said, "This year I decided to give up suffering."

-Hugh Prather

Reminds of this that I've posted before:

An older student came to Otis and said, "I have been to see a great number of teachers and I have given up a great number of pleasures. I have fasted, been celibate and stayed awake nights seeking enlightenment. I have given up everything I was asked to give up and I have suffered, but I have not been enlightened. What should I do?" Otis replied, "Give up suffering." -- Camden Benares, "Zen Without Zen Masters"

LuciMay, there's a difference between constructive worry and destructive worry. Constructive worry is about stuff you can do something about. Destructive worry is the opposite.

--A

[lucimay]

LuciMay, there's a difference between constructive worry and destructive worry. Constructive worry is about stuff you can do something about. Destructive worry is the opposite.

--A

worrying seems...passive to me. it doesn't DO anything constructive. it's a festering of fears and anxities. THINKING about something, some situation or event or problem and attempting to solve or reconcile or gain perspective or insight on seems different than worrying. to me anyway.
it's probably a very fine line.

i continually find myself paralyzed by fears and anxieties, worries. i have at some odd moments in my life been able to break the paralysis and act but those times have been few and far between. i'm attempting, at this point, to be aware and act. and that action, acting to break fearful paralysis, is one of the ways in which i attempt to participate in my own happiness.

[Fist and Faith]

You need to think like a Bridgeburner. I'm not being silly. What point in admiring people and characters if we waste the lessons learned? Which Bridgeburner is paralyzed by fear or anxiety? Just go kick some ass, Luci!

[Avatar]

It's only passive if you're worrying about something you can do something about, and still don't do it.

If you can't do something about it, worrying is like banging your head against a wall.

Remember, insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.

--A

[lucimay]

It's only passive if you're worrying about something you can do something about, and still don't do it.

If you can't do something about it, worrying is like banging your head against a wall.

Remember, insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.

--A

shit.
so yer sayin that's how i got that perpetual bruise on my forehead huh.

You need to think like a Bridgeburner. I'm not being silly. What point in admiring people and characters if we waste the lessons learned? Which Bridgeburner is paralyzed by fear or anxiety? Just go kick some ass, Luci!

i am. thinkin like a bridgeburner. why do you think i'm called Lather
at the malazan forum. get it? worry. lather. get it?
no one ever gets it.
i fear the only ass i'm kickin is my own.

[Fist and Faith]

And your friends Rinse and Repeat? heh

[lorin]

I put this essay on my door at work. I immediately got the wrong reaction from the clients. All they seem to get from it is that I am ridiculing people on welfare. BUT I really like it and won't take it down. I don't always live by the advice but I look at it daily.


Dance Like No One Is Watching

We convince ourselves that life will be better after we get married, have a baby, then another. Then we are frustrated that the kids aren't old enough and we'll be more content when they are. After that we're frustrated that we have teenagers to deal with. We will certainly be happy when they are out of that stage. We tell ourselves that our life will be complete when our spouse gets his or her act together, when we get a nicer car, are able to go on a nice vacation, when we retire. The truth is, there's no better time to be happy than right now. If not now, when?

Your life will always be filled with challenges. It's best to admit this to yourself and decide to be happy anyway. One of my favorite quotes comes from Alfred D Souza. He said, "For a long time it had seemed to me that life was about to begin - real life. But there was always some obstacle in the way, something to be gotten through first, some unfinished business, time still to be served, a debt to be paid. Then life would begin. At last it dawn on me that these obstacles were my life."

This perspective has helped me to see that there is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way. So, treasure every moment that you have. And treasure it more because you shared it with someone special, special enough to spend your time with...and remember that time waits for no one...

So stop waiting until you finish school, until you go back to school, until you lose ten pounds, until you gain ten pounds, until you have kids, until your kids leave the house, until you start work, until you retire, until you get married, until you get divorced, until Friday night, until Sunday morning, until you get a new car or home, until your car or home is paid off, until spring, until summer, until fall, until winter, until you are off welfare, until the first or fifteenth, until your song comes on, until you've had a drink, until you've sobered up, until you die - - to decide that there is no better time than right now to be happy..

Happiness is a journey, not a destination. Thought for the day: Work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt, and dance like no one's watching. Get busy living or get busy dying.

[Linna Heartbooger]

Btw, lorin... sorry that some people were expressing irritation with your quote.

Encouragement often faces resistance. I resist others' encouragement, myself, regularly... because to really take the encouragement in requires me to change.

[Fist and Faith]

Great essay, lorin.

[Holsety]

Happiness is a journey, not a destination. Thought for the day: Work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt, and dance like no one's watching. Get busy living or get busy dying.

The last time I worked for my neighbor, I forgot about picking up my wages from him and he criticized me, saying that people weren't likely to hire me with an attitude like that.

The essay was great. I think it is impossible to willfully bring about those moments, however. You only bring them out when you're around other people. Internet helps with this!

[Linna Heartbooger]

I wanna maybe challenge one small piece of what was said before.

this post deserves a more thorough response but unfortunately work and a two hour commute are calling me. So until tonight I have to be brief. But I wanted to say that maybe, Cag, you are just getting older. Maybe you are confusing past social anxiety with current maturity. I have found that as I get older I have less patience for bullshit (no _ here). I value my time with people and don't want to waste my time, my energy, my thoughts on crap. I value the few people, virtual or IRL, that I have in my life too much to waste my time or theirs on small talk and nonsense.

<high five> Good for you for the value you place on your time & theirs. I've been a lot like this in some ways most of my adult life ...revelling in deep conversations, avoiding speaking up when it comes to the piddling nonsense.

Below is the piece I wanted to challenge.. I now think the "small-talk" serves some really valid functions - mainly this: putting out a small piece of yourself, to find out how ppl will respond. also as a way of finding common ground for the possibility of building mutual respect..

(Now, if only "small talk" didn't - in practice - so often consist so much of complaining about people & things outside our control.)

Of course, as my posting pattern on the Watch belies, I speak as a bit of a hypocrite - this is a new idea for me, and I think I'm on to something, but I'm just as much trying to convince myself of the truth of what I've intellectually "learned."

I had a writing coach in my last year at school and he consistently said two things to me Quality not quantity and Less is more. More (or less ) on this later..

So true. Btw, when I went back I also saw this quote of yours, which I just loved:

I learned a lot during that time about listening to the ghosts in peoples hearts.

[Cagliostro]

I ran across that "Wear Sunscreen" piece again recently. I'm posting it for those who haven't read it, or haven't read it in a while.

Wear Sunscreen
By Mary Schmich of the Chicago Tribune

Ladies and gentlemen of the class of '98: Wear sunscreen.

If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be it. The long-term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by scientists whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience. I will dispense this advice now.

Enjoy the power and beauty of your youth. Oh, never mind. You will not understand the power and beauty of your youth until they've faded. But trust me, in 20 years, you'll look back at photos of yourself and recall in a way you can't grasp now how much possibility lay before you and how fabulous you really looked. You are not as fat as you imagine.

Don't worry about the future. Or worry, but know that worrying is as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum. The real troubles in your life are apt to be things that never crossed your worried mind, the kind that blind side you at 4 PM on some idle Tuesday.

Do one thing every day that scares you.

Sing.

Don't be reckless with other people's hearts. Don't put up with people who are reckless with yours.

Floss.

Don't waste your time on jealousy. Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long and, in the end, it's only with yourself.

Remember compliments you receive. Forget the insults. If you succeed in doing this, tell me how.

Keep your old love letters. Throw away your old bank statements.

Stretch.

Don't feel guilty if you don't know what you want to do with your life. The most interesting people I know didn't know at 22 what they wanted to do with their lives. Some of the most interesting 40-year-olds I know still don't.

Get plenty of calcium.

Be kind to your knees. You'll miss them when they're gone.

Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't. Maybe you'll have children, maybe you won't. Maybe you'll divorce at 40, maybe you'll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary. Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody else's.

Enjoy your body. Use it every way you can. Don't be afraid of it or of what other people think of it. It's the greatest instrument you'll ever own.

Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your living room.

Read the directions, even if you don't follow them.

Do not read beauty magazines. They will only make you feel ugly.

Get to know your parents. You never know when they'll be gone for good.

Be nice to your siblings. They're your best link to your past and the people most likely to stick with you in the future.

Understand that friends come and go, but with a precious few you should hold on. Work hard to bridge the gaps in geography and lifestyle, because the older you get, the more you need the people who knew you when you were young.

Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you hard.

Live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft.

Travel.

Accept certain inalienable truths: Prices will rise. Politicians will philander. You, too, will get old. And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable, politicians were noble, and children respected their elders.

Respect your elders.

Don't expect anyone else to support you. Maybe you have a trust fund. Maybe you'll have a wealthy spouse. But you never know when either one might run out.

Don't mess too much with your hair or by the time you're 40 it will look 85.

Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

But trust me on the sunscreen.

I have found this fairly inspirational. Particularly the part about doing things that scare you. After I was dumped several years back, when I was starting to get it together, I decided I would do something every week that scared me, as once a day was hard to pull off, what with work and so forth. I ended up auditioning for a play that I landed a small part in, and I credit this a bit to my future wife's interest in me when we first met. I need to start doing this again though, as it made me feel much better about myself. Even the little stuff like braving driving in downtown Denver (that I always get lost in) made me at least feel like I was challenging myself.

I also really like the bit about advice, and how it is a form of nostalgia. I find that very wise, and the best way to frame advice from others.

The only line I would edit is the following: Don't put up with people who are reckless with yours (your heart). It's true, but with the caveat that you need to not be too judgmental on how reckless they are being. I've dropped a few people as friends because of this that I wished I hadn't.

[Linna Heartbooger]

Thanks for posting that... Yeah, I find a lot of good in that, too. I've read it before (sometime in the last 15 yrs or so) and it seems even wiser now.

Doing things that scare you - yes. Thanks for the reminder. I need to do more of that. Especially because a number of things I know would be good for me to do are things that scare me.

The advice part is pretty cool too. Even if you don't get advice you can quite apply to your life, you sure get to see a significant slice of the heart of the person you're talking to.

[deer of the dawn]

A really good piece, and how true it rings! However for me, I don't have to seek out scarey things. Just driving to work usually results in at least one adrenaline freakout. (It has been said of 3rd world driving, "there are no rules, only reflexes".) For years I've wanted to post a video of what driving is like here, but I'm not sure it would be fair to impose that on the rest of the world.

This thread is entitled "Depression" and I imagine those of us who visit here have experienced that. I just wanted to say that although a year ago July I literally wanted to curl up and die, I have passed through and am myself again. I think some of my newer co-workers are wondering where this chatty old chick came from. If there is anything to add to the above advice it would be along the lines of "This too shall pass". I've gone through deep depression before and I know it ends sooner or later, thank God. And it has!! Hallelujah!! It's good to be me again!

[Cambo]

Congratulations, Deer of the Dawn.

[aliantha]

Congrats, DotD.

Good stuff in that piece, Cag. (Did floss even exist in 1998? )

[Cagliostro]

(Did floss even exist in 1998? )

It might have, but until this piece, the jury was still out on its effectiveness.

Congrats DotD!