Depression

[Linna Heartbooger]

Thanks for the laughs. I need it today. Can't seem to get a grip on myself.

I was telling God this morning that I am really angry about a bunch of stuff that I have no control over, and don't know how to move on. This emoticon comes to mind: How do I get over, around, or through that wall and move on with life?

Wouldn't we like to know? =/

Well, good for you for ranting to God... sometimes it takes me ages to work up to that.

Maybe what you're doing right now - facing these resistances - is more significant than many of the "glamorous" parts of living life.
(the ones that make us feel like we're doing so much)

I learned years ago that when I have hurts that won't heal, the first step is forgiving. I keep thinking I've forgiven everyone and everything that has hurt, abandoned, betrayed or disappointed me. So why do I still hurt?

Don't you think that there are some healthy ways of "leaving yourself open" to love, and therefore to possibly be hurt by, and hurt for others?
(I think there are.)

I'll probably regret posting this later, too transparent, but what the hey.

Well, hope ya don't... I certainly have gone and been too transparent in this kinda context myself.
Think you did this in a good way... leaving out the kinds of details to be left out, (at least at first) leaving in the kinds of ones to be left in.
(Not sure if what you need right now is analysis of your posting though...)

[Savor Dam]

So true...even after ranting and/or forgiving, hurt remains.
All we can do for one another is freely and frequently.

[Avatar]

How do I get over, around, or through that wall and move on with life?

Realise (and accept) that the wall is in your head.

--A

[Linna Heartbooger]

How do I get over, around, or through that wall and move on with life?

Realise (and accept) that the wall is in your head.

--A

how did this become your mantra, av? You've experienced depression. I'm wondering if you "turned the tide" years ago and never looked back, or if you periodically have times when depression hangs over you and you are able to blast a path through it, or what?

but then, my set of ethics now includes an assumption that self-disclosure that's forced isn't really self-disclosure.
So feel free to ignore this request for the much-vaunted "personal story."

[Savor Dam]

Linna, "prompting" is not "forcing." When you ask questions like that, you may get a public answer, a private message (like I sent you when prompted for some self-disclosure last year), or no response at all. We are almost all capable of these choices. Av surely is.

Catharsis is good. The sharing helps us all learn and grow.

[Linna Heartbooger]

Catharsis is good. The sharing helps us all learn and grow.

I tend to think that is often the case, too. But I think there are many people who don't automatically see the point - for example, some people who are far more rational than I and who think in abstracts pretty much naturally.

And even for those who do see the point... the person asking doesn't automatically have any good reason for asking whatsoever.
I think sometimes I should be skeptical of myself when I find myself asking people such questions.

Now, as far as your point about people being able to make their own choices... some of those disclaimers I put at the ends of things... well, hmmm.

[Avatar]

So feel free to ignore this request for the much-vaunted "personal story."

Hahahaha, there's not much I'm not willing to say in public, or haven't said already in the last 7 odd years.

And yes, I guess I did turn the tide long ago. I mean, I still sometimes feel a little depressed, but that's almost always associated with a particular circumstance, rather than being something nebulous and ongoing, if you can appreciate the difference.

I'm not entirely sure exactly how it happened though. I sorta came to understand a few things over the years maybe. One was that I was the centre of my own universe, and that I reacted to things as I perceived them, and not as they really were.

Which led to understanding that what they really were didn't matter, just how I perceived them. So if I could change my perception, (look at it from a different perspective), then it would be the same as if it was different. In fact, it would be different.

Another was that, in the great scheme of things, my own happiness or unhappiness was entirely immaterial. My own life was immaterial. The sun will rise, the wind will blow, the rain will fall, all regardless of whether I was there or not, or how I felt. The world, the universe, has no vested interest in me. In light of this, I realised that all our struggling and fear and anxiety and conflicts were actually pretty amusing, and often petty. I find this liberating.

Next is that I tend to be a very present-orientated person. I don't stress about the past, or fret over the future. The only things worth worrying about are things you have the power to change, and then you shouldn't be worrying about them, you should be doing what's necessary to change it. (And if you're not, then you should stop complaining about it.) Everything beyond your power to affect will be, regardless of whether you worry about it or not.

And finally, it was that the silence had to be in my head. Relying on external circumstances, or the actions of others, to be happy or at peace is pointless. External things change all the time. You have to be able to be at peace regardless of what is happening outside. Whatever might be happening around me, it's always quiet in my head.

If you have to move, even one inch, from where you are now in order to be happy, you probably never will be.

That's one of my favourite quotes ever.

If you always need something other than what you have to be happy, you will always need something other than what you have, even once you've gotten the thing (or done the thing or gone to the place) that you thought would make you happy. Because wherever you are, there you are too.


So yeah...I dunno if that's at all helpful to anybody else, but once I believed and acted in accordance with those things, I stopped being depressed, because there really wasn't any point. The world is an amazing place, people are amazing (and confusing and confounding) creatures, and if you can't change it, (and who would want to change that?), learn to enjoy it.

--A

[deer of the dawn]

How do I get over, around, or through that wall and move on with life?

Realise (and accept) that the wall is in your head.

--A

I do accept that. How do I get through my own head?

Thanks so much for the

I'm not globally depressed, but I do have some devastating issues in my life and get totally overwhelmed at times. Other times, I'm loving life. I can literally go from Woe is me to Wheee!! in the course of a day.

There is a lot of wisdom in what you say, Av, but I take exception with:

My own life was immaterial.

Just ask your friends. What does "The Grand Scheme" know anyway?

I love your quote. That's the heart of where I'm at: learning to love where I am and be grateful for it, even the painful parts.

Linna: Savor Dam: Av:

[Cagliostro]

Nicely written Av. However, I'm curious how this "life-script" of your will hold up if you have kids. I'm telling ya...it does strange things to your mind.

[aliantha]

The trick with having kids, I've found, is to get back to Av's kind of mindset when they hit their teens. Because you need to be really good at it by the time they become young adults.

[Cagliostro]

Great Frith, help me now!

[Avatar]

...I take exception with:

My own life was immaterial.

Just ask your friends. What does "The Grand Scheme" know anyway?

Well obviously it's not immaterial to me, I'm quite fond of it. I meant that in the long run, the universe doesn't care. No matter what I (or anybody else) do, a couple of generations, (maybe twice that if you're really lucky) is the longest you can really even hope to be remembered. In my case, probably not even that, given lack of much family. It doesn't bother me that in the long run it doesn't mean anything. Like I said, I'm only really interested in now anyway.

I do accept that. How do I get through my own head?

Well, if you really know it's in your head, then you know there isn't really a wall. If there's no wall, then you can walk right through it.

Nicely written Av. However, I'm curious how this "life-script" of your will hold up if you have kids.

Luckily, we're not planning on having any kids. The GF and I are far too lazy and selfish to inflict ourselves on anything else.

--A

[Cagliostro]

I was that way up until my 40s. I think that was my midlife crisis - wanting to have kids.



I guess it is better than dyeing my thatch and getting an 18 year old girlfriend.

[aliantha]

But not less expensive than buying a Maserati....

[Linna Heartbooger]

No matter what I (or anybody else) do, a couple of generations, (maybe twice that if you're really lucky) is the longest you can really even hope to be remembered.

Wait a minute... what are you talking about, Av? Aren't there all these counterexamples you can make from history?

What's the loophole then? Is the way that we "remember" great historical figures or authors ...something that doesn't count because we don't actually know the person?
We're just like remembering a fictional version of him or her?
Or what's the deal?

Luckily, we're not planning on having any kids. The GF and I are far too lazy and selfish to inflict ourselves on anything else.

Pfft, contradicting yourself... saying you guys are selfish, and then deciding not to inflict yourselves on others.

That said, my own laziness and selfishness do become a lot more troubling in light of the fact that I have kids. So yeah, I kinda see a point there...

[Avatar]

Wait a minute... what are you talking about, Av? Aren't there all these counterexamples you can make from history?

Well of course. But compare that number to the number of people who have died unremarked since time began, and the historical figures are statistically insignificant.

In fact, most of them get remembered for the large numbers of unremarked people they caused to die.

By far the majority of us will leave little to no evidence of existing as individuals that will last more than a hundred years.

--A

[Holsety]

If you have to move, even one inch, from where you are now in order to be happy, you probably never will be.

That's one of my favourite quotes ever.

If you always need something other than what you have to be happy, you will always need something other than what you have, even once you've gotten the thing (or done the thing or gone to the place) that you thought would make you happy. Because wherever you are, there you are too.

You know Av, I really don't understand this part at all. It just doesn't jive with anything I've experienced. First off, moving can be fun, and having fun can make you happy. And eating good food makes me happy while I'm eating it and takes away hunger when I'm done (and feeling full makes me happy). And eating good food involves moving an inch. So does typing on this keyboard, actually, which makes me happy. Just because happiness needs to be maintained doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I suppose if the maintenance is taxing, then the happiness can be absorbed...but that doesn't seem necessarily the case.

[Avatar]

I mean that if you can't be happy with what you've got, anything you get is unlikely to make you happy, no matter what it is.

What it's really for is the people who say, "Oh, I'd be happy if only I had XYZ."

XYZ might make you happy briefly, but that's it. Once you're used to it, you'll want ABC to make you truly happy. And so on.

--A

[Holsety]

I mean that if you can't be happy with what you've got, anything you get is unlikely to make you happy, no matter what it is.

What it's really for is the people who say, "Oh, I'd be happy if only I had XYZ."

XYZ might make you happy briefly, but that's it. Once you're used to it, you'll want ABC to make you truly happy. And so on.

--A

OK. Taken non-literally I can accept it.

[Harbinger]

I was that way up until my 40s. I think that was my midlife crisis - wanting to have kids.



I guess it is better than dyeing my thatch and getting an 18 year old girlfriend.

Dude, I was under the impression that your "thatch" didn't gray. I suppose this was because I saw my granddad's. Damn. I keep trimmed, but I might have to go bald so I never experience "gray thatch."