Bigfoot

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

There's a lot of smoke out there, with reports that a paper discussing a study of Bigfoot DNA samples has been submitted to a prestigious journal for better than a year, and publication allegedly imminent, to go along with an increasing number of 'reality' shows devoted to the search, and a general uptick in Bigfoot awareness in the popular imagination.

Anybody out there have an opinion on the subject? It's a subject I've been kicking around for years, and frankly I'm pretty ambivalent about it even now. In some ways I find it plausible, in other ways I'm quite skeptical.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

[peter]

Sorry to say you're not exactly being crushed under the weight of peoples 'Bigfoot Sighting Stories' there Ron. I think the problems in the name. Bigfoot. the Yeti. the Abomnible Smowman. But yet(i), who knows. Trouble with these 'just around the corner' stories is they tend to stay there - just around the corner. I think the world is a better place for the possibility (however remote) of Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster and Tibetan Lama's that fly and I for one would be sadenned by their passing!

[wayfriend]

I thought that anyone believing in Bigfoot would give it up when Ray Wallace, on his deathbed, admited that his famous "evidence" was all faked.

I do quite enjoy the odd episode of Finding Bigfoot on Animal Planet. If you've never seen it, here's how one typically goes.

Someone saw Bigfoot around here. Let's walk through this forest and look for him.

*snap*

Did you hear that twig snap?!?! Bigfoots snap twigs!!!! There's a Squatch here ...

Look, an edible plant. Sasquatch eat these. We are so close!

What's that? I saw something!!!! It could only be a Sasquatch!!!!

In conclusion, we got a lot more evidence today that Sasquatch are real. I think we're really close now.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

Dr. Melba Ketchum Facebook Page

The release of major Sasquatch DNA study appears imminent. Rumor is the genome was fully sequenced, although the players (see above) are keeping a tight lid on it.

www.nabigfootsearch.com/home.html

bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2012/02/david-claerr-prepares-for-ketchum.html

[Avatar]

Hmmm, whatever happened to the cryptozoology thread?

--A

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

voices.yahoo.com/bigfoot-dna-report-hypothesis-2011-8786601.html?cat=58

DNA from Bigfoot, or Sasquatch is currently being sequenced by several groups in the Americas and abroad, and the data from at least one of these groups is expected to soon be publicly released. My own preliminary research perhaps indicates some interesting and significant features that will require comprehensive tests and investigation to quantify. The commentary on data that I have been able to gather from my own sources are independent of the foremost researchers who are now performing in-depth sequencing of nuclear DNA from the larger-than-human North American primate variously known as Sasquatch, Bigfoot, Skunk Ape and other local appellations.

The primary concept that has emerged from my own studies is an intriguing hypothesis. The Sasquatch, or Bigfoot, appears to be what I would categorize a Progenitor Species - with which Neanderthals, Cro Magnon man and modern humans may share a common, recent ancestor. They may even be in the direct lineage that resulted in modern humans.

First it is necessary to define the concept of a Progenitor Species. In the context of currently living organisms, the closest analog that we have would be among the Equine family, which includes Horses, Zebras, Donkeys, Indian Onagers and Wild African Asses. The Progenitor Species that has a common ancestor with the modern horse is a rare breed that was until recently was extinct in the wild, known as the Przewalski Horse, or, by the Mongolian name, the Takhi. In the early 20th century, there were only 15 Takhis left alive, in zoos or private reserves. They were brought back from the brink of extinction through conscientious breeding programs. Small herds have recently been released in Mongolia, which was the last place they inhabited in their wild state.

Przewalskis or Takhis have a distinct and notable difference in their genetic makeup from the modern horse, in that they have two extra chromosomes. Takhis have 66 chromosomes, but the modern horse has only 64. Despite this marked genetic difference, Takhis can breed with the modern horse and have fertile offspring. Other members of the Equine family can also breed with horses, but with a few very rare exceptions, the offspring are infertile.

We know that the Takhis are an ancient breed, as evidenced by their appearance in cave paintings dating back thousands of years. Physically they have many characteristics of other members in the Equine family in addition to the horse. They have short legs, a large head and a stocky build reminiscent of donkeys and asses. Their mane has stiff bristles that stand up straight from the neck like Zebras. The legs of the Takhis have stripes or bars, also similar in pattern to those of many Zebras. The extreme rarity of the Takhis has severely limited experiments in breeding with other members of the Equine family, so the ability to breed with donkeys, zebras or asses has not yet been determined in comprehensive studies.

Some of the DNA samples from Sasquatch, or Bigfoot, according to reports, appear to also have two extra chromosomes than modern humans. Humans have 46 diploid chromosomes, and the fore-mentioned purported samples of Sasquatch, 48. If the considerable anecdotal evidence from Native American sources as well as some early reported cases by European immigrants to the Americas can provisionally be considered authentic, they can also breed with humans and have viable offspring. This would lead to the possible correlation that Bigfoot are a Progenitor Species which has a pool of genetic material that is much closer to the ancestor of the known human family, Neanderthals, Cro Magnon, Homo Floriensis (Hobbits) and modern humans.

A more simple way of picturing this Sasquatch gene pool is that it would have more of the original ingredients of the ancestors of man and his earlier relatives. If so, they would have a numerically greater capacity for viable combinations of genes. The distinct possibility of hybridization would explain why certain DNA samples could appear to match the human DNA with only 46 or 47 chromosomes. A similar combination of genetic characteristics is seen in the Takhi/Horse hybrids, that have only one additional chromosome than the horse (65). Current genetic theory states that the reduced chromosome count that differentiates humans from other higher primates is due to a fusing of 4 diploid chromosomes to form only 2, which incidentally are about twice the length of the original 4 individual chromosomes. This chromosomal configuration is also seen in comparisons between chimpanzees (48 chromosomes) and humans (46 chromosomes). Other "great apes" such as gorillas, bonobos, bili apes, orangutans, etc., also have 48 chromosomes.

Such a proposed ability to breed with genetically divergent descendants or near-relatives would provide an explanation for the regional differences in the outward appearance of Sasquatches such as different colors of hair-coat, and facial appearance ranging from the more ape-like to the more human. Some of the specimens derived from Sasquatch-Human hybrids would likely have only 46 or 47 chromosomes and, in cursory tests of mitochondrial DNA, would type as human. It is important to note that there are over 30 billion bases that form the "rungs" of the DNA ladder helix (often abbreviated: CATG) in the human genome. The number of possible combinations are hence astronomical. To use another analog from the Equine Family. there are several well documented cases of hybrids between horses, donkeys, zebras and wild asses that were FERTILE, and had offspring that were also able to reproduce. Therefore, over countless millennia, interactions between the various multiple branches in the lineages of human ancestors are not only possible but are highly probable statistically.

An important point to note is that, based on this hypothesis, across the Americas, the Sasquatch or Bigfoot are not necessarily a distinct and easily identifiable species such as an elk or mountain gorilla, but would include rather, a confusing, divergent population of hybridized hominids. Note also that this does not preclude the possibility that there can also be a more "pure" or genetically ancient and original population (the Progenitors) that has not significantly interbred with humankind and that would appear as a more distinct species, most likely, those with 48 chromosomes.


A genetic makeup that can combine with widely variant strains of divergent, yet related species and subspecies would create a highly adaptable organism, that could survive in a wide range of climates and ecosystems. Such adaptability would also provide the rationale behind the very large geographic range of reported sightings of hominids/hominins variously known as Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Skunk Ape, Almasty etc., throughout the world.

The Progenitor Species hypothesis is here presented, not as a developed scientific theory, but as an avenue for further investigation. A full scientific analysis of DNA from purported Sasquatch, or Bigfoot, samples should include double-blind studies from independent labs staffed by qualified DNA experts. Comprehensive analysis of nuclear DNA is essential. The findings should be examined in the standard process of peer review and submitted as a scientific paper. The rigorous scientific methods required are both expensive and time-consuming, but will yield the most reliable results.

Sources:

for more information on the Przewalski Horse: nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/AsiaTrail/fact-phorse.cfm

All other information on DNA tests are from various independent sources. No specific tests results are revealed herein, only an hypothesis based on the available reported data. An hypothesis is equivalent to informed speculation and cannot be considered a theory or fact until proven by rigorous, repeatable scientific tests.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

Hmmm, whatever happened to the cryptozoology thread?

--A

If this is real, I submit -- with respect -- that this will merit its own thread.

[rdhopeca]

I have only scanned this since I am at work, but where did they acquire the Sasquatch DNA?

[Fist and Faith]

I think they grabbed a soda can that the Bigfoot threw away.

[aliantha]

I think they grabbed a soda can that the Bigfoot threw away.

I wonder what brand?

Seriously, y'all are gonna look really stupid if what Ex posted turns out to be true.

[wayfriend]

I think they grabbed a soda can that the Bigfoot threw away.

This week on Finding Bigfoot: Oh my god! An empty soda can! There's a Squatch around here ...

[rdhopeca]

I didn't question the article's accuracy or veracity; I merely asked where, if no one's ever seen a Sasquatch, they got the DNA.

[Fist and Faith]

I didn't question the article's accuracy or veracity; I merely asked where, if no one's ever seen a Sasquatch, they got the DNA.

Hence my preposterous answer.

[Zarathustra]

It was probably from hair found in the woods.

The theories that Bigfoot is some relative of human includes the idea that they are social and intelligent. If this is true, and if they exist, it's possible that they bury their dead, making it difficult to find a corpse. So I'm guessing hair.

I do find this idea fascinating. I'm not saying I believe BF exists, but there is evidence in the fossil record of a very large primate, Gigantopithecus

From Wikipedia:

an extinct genus of ape that existed from roughly one million years to as recently as three hundred thousand years ago,[1] in what is now China, India, and Vietnam, placing Gigantopithecus in the same time frame and geographical location as several hominin species.[2] The fossil record suggests that individuals of the species Gigantopithecus blacki were the largest apes that ever lived, standing up to 3 metres (9.8 ft), and weighing up to 540 kilograms (1,200 lb).[1][3][4]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantopithecus

[Orlion]

You can not get DNA from hair. You can tell if it is human, dog, etc. but you can not get the DNA. The only time this 'happens' is if hair is torn out and you have little chunks of skin, flesh, whatevs that you can actually get the DNA from.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

There are rumors that more than 100 separate sources were used, including hair/follicle as you suggest, but there are other alleged sources such as some remains left over from a hunter who reportedly shot two of them. In addition to the ridiculous TV shows, there are other groups of researchers out there who have been at this for quite some time, many of them working in secret, that are supposed to be involved in this project with various forms of evidence beyond just DNA.

[wayfriend]

On a serious note, if no one has proven that Sasquatch actually exists, then no one could have proven that any DNA samples are from a Sasquatch. In which case, while I am sure that there will be a result from the DNA sequencing, there's nothing about it that would show it is a Sasquatch DNA sequencing.

It seems as if some folks are using 'alleged' samples of Sasquatch DNA and performing a DNA sequencing to lend them an authority that they do not in fact have, by hoping no one notices that they skipped a few steps.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

To hear those allegedly in the know tell it, the origin of the samples is well documented using accepted methodologies.

[Orlion]

Here's how you'll know: if you can access the article once it has been released without using/paying for access to accurate scientific journals, it is not credible. If, instead, we only see announcements about it with report that it was published in a leading scientific journal, then there may be something to it.