Alts, and why they're confusing.

[Fist and Faith]

Probably a good idea! As I've said, I don't think a unique, non-SRD name should be allowed to be copied. Especially when it's not done with the original's permission, and even moreso (lessso?) when the intent is not nice.

[dANdeLION]

WHAT?!? You begged me to become Emotional Leopard!

[Fist and Faith]

Special case. You look so damned good in TLF's skirts!

[Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm]

I've split the thread from balon!'s as best I could. It got a little messy with a couple of posts. Sorry about that.

I think this thread is a pretty good case study of why alts, while entertaining in theory, can be a Bad Idea in practice. Anybody want to make a case for why we should, or should not, continue to allow them at the Watch? I understand some boards prohibit members from having more than one identity.

Thank you, the split went quite well, I simply copied my reply to balon! that was supposed to be in his thread.

Bad ideas are a topic for a long talk, I think I'll address it later, if that's still needed here by then.

I feel sorry for new members.
With all these alts i've found that I only respond to those that I know.
I'm ignoring the new members.

May I ask why? I respond to anything I think I can give a useful, entertaining or otherwise valuable reply to.

I seriously fail to see a reason why different identities can't be simply treated for what they are. If someone posts interesting and thoughtful things, why not reply and treat well, whatever alt this may be? And if a person behaves in an offensive way and basically spits on everyone, that person may get a well-deserved reaction, with a warning still, regardless of being an alt or the one and only.

...
Rather than worrying too much about some consistent rules standard about alts that is written in stone, I think the Mods / Admins should be trusted to cut through the BS and decide who is up to no good and put a stop to it. Just give them a few warnings and some opportunities to conform before lowering the boom.

Right)

Speaking for the alts
Who do so responsibly
I say let us stay

Creativity
Would be stifled by banning
Our alt personas

Thank you, your presence
Is good influence even
Where you haven't posted

...
I do think that there should be a pinned post that requires people working with alts to post their various personalities.

That I could survive. I'm not too keen on saying more than that I'm not someone I may be mistaken for, but if people are so worried, I may do that. Preferably with spoiler tags.

However, if a person intends ill, not only ignoring such a thread is no problem, hiding the identity from the mods is half a piece of cake to anyone remotely acquainted with how it's done. And the ones who suffer from suspicion are usually exactly the ones who didn't intend to hurt anyone.

...
Except for the occasional bad apple, I truly see nothing wrong with alt accounts.
...
It is when an alt account is created to mimic or claim another Watcher's account that problems seem to set in. That appears to generally be done mean-spiritedly, although perhaps not by the current manifestation of L-rd Foul.
...

Thank you very much, this was most kind of you)

...
Perhaps if we do implement rules regarding alts, something along the lines of not claiming an abandoned user name for a certain time frame
...

Makes me wonder how much, I thought a month was enough.

I don't have a problem with alts, and people doing what they like with them so long as they're not trolling or otherwise causing trouble. That a precedent might be set for claiming other people's identities, though, does bother me - enough so that, shortly after I changed my user name tonight, I felt uncomfortable enough that I went and changed an unused alt's name to "Murrin" so that no one (*cough*) could claim it.

Cough? I don't think bbf is likely to be interested in an account with a relation to you, looks like he was thinking that I was mocking him when he tried to use an account similar to mine. I don't think he may do anything of the sort again at all, let alone on a mod.

As for me, I didn't even show a single instance of taking for myself someone's name without my high respect to that person and consent, if that's a real person I could actually ask. Though I understand you could think differently. Going on assumptions can take far. Had you written me a pm, I could have told it to anyone interested myself, (like I told lorin and intended to tell anyone worried, and I stated before that who I wasn't openly, just not many people mentioned) without it looking as if I was hiding, as if with some malicious intent, and likely evading all the niceties that arrived next.

So, your name hardly interests anyone Don't worry, be happy about it.

Probably a good idea! As I've said, I don't think a unique, non-SRD name should be allowed to be copied. Especially when it's not done with the original's permission, and even moreso (lessso?) when the intent is not nice.

There are also cases when people are really eager to use some specific names that can turn out taken and maybe given to them later. Though that's not likely to be an issue here, and can be addressed individually if it does appear.

[Avatar]

Ok guys, fun's fun, but if it's starting to bug people, then that's a good enough reason to stop.

If alt's get too annoying, we can easily delete the accounts, so keep it in mind if you're having fun messing with people.

The point is for everybody to enjoy themselves, not for some people's enjoyment to be at the expense of others.

--A

[deer of the dawn]

I don't like it. I'm confused enough as it is.

[sgt.null]

i agree with deer. and i warned this would happen. is it really worth the problems?

[Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm]

If it's still not clear, I didn't do any of that to mess with people.

I placed signatures in my accounts saying I'm a role-player.
I explained and admitted the facts here and in the other threads on this.
I posted a detailed explanation of how it happened and linked everywhere relevant kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22536
I agreed to lorin's proposition of a sticky thread with a list of the accounts.
What else do you think I could do, short of actually dropping all the accounts but one?

And still, after all that, I still see people are not fine with all this.

And I can't just choose, at least now I definitely don't see it, that's all me. I've seen having alts taken as saying lies, but I'll be lying exactly if I pick one and say "Oh fine, I'm OK, I never needed anything like that really".

So, apart from the option of throwing away some of myself and lying through my teeth that I'm fine, I have one more option, of throwing all of myself out. I understand many people are fine with me as I am, but I don't want to be a problem for anyone here, and I'm a problem for myself currently as well, being here and yet not being accepted for what I am feels terrible.

I hope I'll be able to return somehow, hopefully even soon, even though I don't have any remotely solid ground for such hopes. Either when the situation changes, or if I find some solution or decide I'd rather actually try to behave normally and not like myself just to stay, maybe start anew.

If I fail to return anytime soon and also stop responding to private messages, the admins may feel free to proclaim me a communist, rename that same account to something like Lord Foul the II and give that name to someone worthy. Though likely if I decide on that, I'll do that all myself.

There is for now one more thing I'd like to say, the difference I see in the views on this. I think it's about the difference between fantasy and lies. It's most profound, but people often find lies more truth-like, they're usually intended that way after all. If I say I have no interest in having a hundred names and faces, that sounds like something quite believable to someone who doesn't know me closely, but that's a lie. And what if call myself that hundred names or more and start telling about my acquaintances from the Grey Nebula, or describe what magnificent views of the city of R'lyeh I've seen, or the feeling of touching the Illearth Stone?

I'd like to say see you soon, but from how it looks for now, I think goodbye is the word. Goodbye.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

Well, if everyone likes everything you're doing all the time, you're definitely doing something wrong.

[lorin]

I don't like the road this thread is taking. Eff, I have told you how I feel. I hope it was clear this was not an attack, it is not in my nature to attack anyone and it disturbs me that you feel attacked. I see nothing vindictive or malicious in you and your alts. I for one never ever implied that. All I have ever said is that it is confusing to me. And I have admitted that it may be my own crap. I have been severely victimized by people with alternate 'names', or should I say I have allowed myself to be victimized. This may taint my attitude and as some have said, it is my problem.

It is your choice to leave but I hope you do not. Ride this out and in a few days you won't even remember the whole business. Many people agree with you and support you. I for one, did not want this to end like this. You are who you are, don't let me or anyone else change you. I will not discuss this issue again, just wanted you to hear this from me.

[Savor Dam]

Effy, as a member who openly admits to have an alt or alts out there (whoever it / they may be), I hope you do not go.

I am a firm believer that alts can be a positive tool. As Menolly pointed out, two shining examples of alts in service to the Watch are Plains of Ra and Dread Poet Jethro. With the exception of a few comments by danlo in the distant past, nobody has ever advocated for either of them to be banned.

Yes, there are potential abuses to the alt capability. You were the victim of one clear type of abuse earlier this week...and it frosts me that the largest outcome of that is that you are being cast as the bad guy in this episode. In case I am not being clear, it is the theft of your primary identity that I am referring to as the act against you. That was flatly wrong. I am also uncomfortable about the decision to reveal that you were the new Lord Foul, but I am not going to second-guess that decision.

Anyway, don't leave. Stay. Thrive. Contribute.

[balon!]

Ali: thanks.

As for the rest of it I have these thoughts:

1) KW is very different from other locations online. I think of it almost as more of a social-network than a forum. We are a community in the fact that (for the most part) our members only post as themselves. We've had precious little problems with Trolls, or people spamming, and I believe it's because everyone on here is comfortable with being their real person. Or at least, their Digital Self-Image.

2) I think that in terms of strife caused recently, there was little. It seems to me that most of the talk was about possible problems if the idea was carried to a much higher magnification, rather than taking offense to specific actions, although I might be wrong on that, feel free to PM me or another mod if you have a grievance you want to remain private.

3)I am firmly against the idea of using a copy-alt of someones account with grammar-flauge added, And the use of any alt for malicious use. Possibly I see someone wanting to use a name already taken. I've used balon1 on sites where my name is taken (although who the hell wants balon, I'll never understand.) As long as the behaviour is in keeping with thought #1, I'm cool. Just be youself, whatever the name you use.

[Icarus Unfallen]

Good points, balon!

I will admit that I took the name I have because my first choice for a name here, Icarus, was already taken. However, I searched for posts by that user and found that there had been none for a very long time. Had the identity had any signs of activity, I would not have chosen a name so similar.

[aliantha]

No charge, balon.

Effy, I believe you have been the victim in this instance. What I said above about alts is Just My Opinion. Obviously others here disagree with me, and obviously others here have been using alts for years. I hope you reconsider and stick around.

[Avatar]

Yeah, hold on, let's not start taking things too personally.

Nobody is saying anybody has to go. And they're certainly not saying anybody specific has to go.

But there are people who are being bothered by the confusion. So, if we clear up the confusion, everybody can go back to playing happily again.

I think we're half-way there already. So nobody do anything precipitate, ok?

--A

[sgt.null]

i told you this would happen.

i was the voice of reason and none of you took me seriously.

this should have been cleaned up before it got to this point.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

This is becoming a typhoon in a teapot.

[sgt.null]

This is becoming a typhoon in a teapot.

how many people have to have a problem with it before it matters?

[Iolanthe]

I'm a simple soul; I had no idea anyone had alternative names until all this blew up. I don't understand why anyone should want more than one ID, but it doesn't particularly bother me now that I know. I did think there was something peculiar about the baby carriers and the cuff links, but I didn't cotton on to any of the rest, even when Effy gained the full stop and wasn't Effy after all. I'm just too trusting; perhaps I need protecting from myself

[I'm Murrin]

I only have other accounts for games. I played the first Pantheon from this account, and frequently ran into problems with my PM inbox and save box being full. Hence, alts for each game after that. Then people stopped really using PMs much in the games anyway, so /shrug. (Though I think for the earliest Pantheon stuff even the gameplay was PM, rather than email, IIRC.)