Sherman Landlearner wrote:Wow. I was so out there, I killed the thread for... (3-6-) 9 whole months. Is that impressive, or sad? LOL
Nah, Sherman... I doubt that... this is generally a slow-moving thread with occasional spurts.
(and I think the spurts are usually social conversation rather than on-topic stuff! )
I kind of appreciate your bluntness...
By the way... your discussion RE "length of a day"... (day? era? millenia?) that was something I'd thought about a lot myself!!
It's a serious question, and had really looked like it had great potential for resolving stuff that doesn't fit together perfectly.
Last edited by Linna Heartbooger on Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"People without hope not only don't write novels, but what is more to the point, they don't read them.
They don't take long looks at anything, because they lack the courage.
The way to despair is to refuse to have any kind of experience, and the novel, of course, is a way to have experience."
-Flannery O'Connor
"In spite of much that militates against quietness there are people who still read books. They are the people who keep me going."
-Elisabeth Elliot, Preface, "A Chance to Die: The Life and Legacy of Amy Carmichael"
I dunno...maybe not having any belief makes you ineligible to criticise beliefs? Sorta like if you don't have kids...people tend to frown on you criticising their parenting.
Avatar wrote:But they have a direct experience of faith. Is it possible to talk about god without having the experience? Without knowing what faith feels like?
--A
I guess it depends what they are criticizing. Criticizing someone purely for having faith, well I agree with your point there. But a criticism on such things as the treatment of women by a particular religion, or its attitudes to sexuality, is perfectly valid IMO.
^"Amusing, worth talking to, completely insane...pick your favourite." - Avatar
I believe in coyotes and time as an abstract
I believe my shirt is wearing thin
And change is what I believe in
I believe my humor's wearing thin
And change is what I believe in
I believe my shirt is wearing thin
And change is what I believe in
I believe in example
I believe my throat hurts
I believe my humor's wearing thin
And I believe the poles are shifting
it's as valid a view as any philosopher will bring
Lady Revel wrote:My problem is that I do not know WHAT to believe. I am wishy-washy.
As Av said, don't believe anything. You don't have to. It's not a requirement. When a belief hits you like a falling piano, so you don't really have a choice, embrace it. Until then, you don't need to feel incomplete for not having any. And you don't need to drive yourself crazy because you think you must choose from among those you've heard of. And you don't need to try to embrace one you don't really feel right about, but chose only because you thought you were required to choose one or another.
And it's nice to see you around again.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Avatar wrote:But that's from a socio-cultural point of view. We literally have no argument against "god tells us to do it."
--A
Depends on how you feel about that statement. My argument against it is
to quote the sacred text of a different faith and say "You're mistaken, god says *THIS*". Watch their pointy little heads spin when their are faced wth the exact sort of argument they put forth.
That's just like the first ever colour-blind person arguing with somebody who's not about what colour something is. Each believes the evidence of their "senses." No resolution is possible.
Avatar wrote: That's just like the first ever colour-blind person arguing with somebody who's not about what colour something is. Each believes the evidence of their "senses." No resolution is possible.
--A
Your final sentence there is exactly the point I am making to them.
Avatar wrote: That's just like the first ever colour-blind person arguing with somebody who's not about what colour something is. Each believes the evidence of their "senses." No resolution is possible.
--A
Your final sentence there is exactly the point I am making to them.
But you are incorrect. From their pov. Which is the most important pov to them. As it is to all of us. Resolution is, indeed, possible. They have achieved it. I absolutely agree with you. But you're not trying to convince me, and you're unable to convince them.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
But the exchange usually happens in public. And i hope that anyone who has even remotely entertained doubt about mindlessly accepting dogma solely because they have always been told it, steps back and takes a good long look at what they're a part of. They may end up reinforcing their beliefs...which doesn't bother me because they've given it some thought. That's my purpose in that exchange...to get someone to stop and think. Not change their mind about their God/Gods/Goddess(es), but to think.
I vehemently disagreed with Rusmeister over in the Close, frequently (not as frequently as you, Fist, granted), but one thing I always respected and gave him credit for was eh HAD thought about it. He made a conscious decision to (from my perspective) abnegate his own values, decision-making, everything to the Authority of the Orthodox Church. But he thought it through, at length and in detail.
)
