Ravers of the Lost Ark

[Thorhammerhand]

Again a reiteration of what seems generally accepted now that the ravers were triplets of some long forgotten mother

Spoiler

see FR

However their malice supports LF, but they seem totally dependent on him far all things. At the end of the second trilogy a Raver tries to suduce him into submission, see TC's reaction to this.

[wayfriend]

I'll point out that had the Ravers ever gotten the ring, it would not have had enough power for them (as it was not given to them freely) and so Foul would have wiped the floor with them, not the least because they would have screwed up Foul's plans for all time. So they may have feared taking the ring for that reason.

Two quotes in the GI also seem to apply here.

In fantasy, storytellers can explore the arational aspects of being human through arealistic means (magic, monsters, archetypal evil, whatever). So you might think of the Ravers this way: take a blind, kllling (and ultimately terror-based) emotion like "road rage"; remove the many complexities of the individual who feels the rage; transpose that distilled emotion back to a pre-medieval, or even pre-barbarian, form of reality; and then personify it (give it form and identity as if it were a definable person). Hey, presto: Ravers. They don't want to "own" anything: they want to destroy everything that they hate (which--although they would deny it--just happens to be everything that they fear). They "take possession" because (being nothing more than distilled emotions) that's the only method by which they can carry out their desires.

(12/07/2005)

Well, I've always thought of the Ravers as "pure" minions: thinking beings so completely subsumed by Lord Foul that they no longer have any independent reality.

(09/06/2008)

The first quote indicates that they may not have desired the white gold anyway. The second indicates that they don't even think about crossing Foul.

[Darkdenubis]

I'll point out that had the Ravers ever gotten the ring, it would not have had enough power for them (as it was not given to them freely) and so Foul would have wiped the floor with them, not the least because they would have screwed up Foul's plans for all time. So they may have feared taking the ring for that reason.

Two quotes in the GI also seem to apply here.

In fantasy, storytellers can explore the arational aspects of being human through arealistic means (magic, monsters, archetypal evil, whatever). So you might think of the Ravers this way: take a blind, kllling (and ultimately terror-based) emotion like "road rage"; remove the many complexities of the individual who feels the rage; transpose that distilled emotion back to a pre-medieval, or even pre-barbarian, form of reality; and then personify it (give it form and identity as if it were a definable person). Hey, presto: Ravers. They don't want to "own" anything: they want to destroy everything that they hate (which--although they would deny it--just happens to be everything that they fear). They "take possession" because (being nothing more than distilled emotions) that's the only method by which they can carry out their desires.

(12/07/2005)

Well, I've always thought of the Ravers as "pure" minions: thinking beings so completely subsumed by Lord Foul that they no longer have any independent reality.

(09/06/2008)

The first quote indicates that they may not have desired the white gold anyway. The second indicates that they don't even think about crossing Foul.

I have to disagree with that, when TC was speaking with Triock/Raver after he came out of Morrinmoss, the Raver was not only tempted to take the Ring, but regretted not having the chance to do so, due to being under the watchful eye of Elena-Foul Wife.

If TC had given his ring with free will to the Raver, I suspect Foul would be first on the Raver's to do list...no one likes servitude, even when working towards the same goal.

[Thorhammerhand]

Abraham Lincoln once said somthing to the effect of all men can withstand adversity, but the true test of a man's character is to give him power.

Maybe the same is true of a Raver, which would be a perfectly valid reason for LF to keep a strangle hold on any Raver anywhere near

Spoiler

one of the White Gold rings.

As to the thread somewhere about how samadi corrupted the clave

Spoiler

Difficult Answers (Chapter 2 FR) Esmer points out that samandi gained access to Berek's King by coming past the Southron Range. Possibly 'he' used the route in the era of the Na-Mhoram (Very New Lords)

[Cord Hurn]

Maybe the title would be better as, "Ravers of the Lost Arch".

[wayfriend]

I like "A Raver Runs Through It".

[Avatar]

Haha, great titles.

--A

[DrPaul]

This has already been alluded to further up the thread. In the Soothtell scene in TWL, samadhi-Gibbon and the Clave attempt to coerce Covenant to surrender the ring:

He could feel them now, a score of wills impending on the back of his neck, commanding him to abandon resistance, take off his ring and surrender it before he died. Telic red burned at him from all sides; every rukh was aflame with compulsion. Release the ring. Set it aside. Before you die. This, he knew, was not part of Lord Foul's intent. It was Gibbon's greed; samadhi Sheol wanted the white gold for himself.

The question that this raises is why samadhi would want the white gold for himself. This in turn raises questions about the sort of beings the Ravers are, the sort of being Lord Foul is, and the relationship between Foul and the Ravers. I think we are given sufficient indications from the books and from the GI that intentional rebellion against Lord Foul is not something the Ravers are capable of. What I would suggest is that the Ravers are beings of simple, unconflicted malice and destructiveness at the level of their basic psychology, whereas Lord Foul is a more complex and conflicted and also more strategic and subtle being. In this light samadhi-Gibbon's attempt to take the ring may not have been a rebellion so much as the act of an overenthusiastic and thuggish underling presuming to know what Da Boss would allow or approve of.

[wayfriend]

I agree that Donaldson's treatment of this details seems a bit inconsistent.

However, it may only be that samadhi believed that he could obtain the ring ... to deliver it to Foul, whom he assumed would be greatly pleased, and would reward him. Raver of the Year, or something.