cussing and kids

[Ananda]

I linked a feminist video that featured little girls cussing to make a point about feminism in the think tank place. It made me wonder how people do feel about the topic of children cussing.

For me, I don't care at all. Cuss words are just words that hold extra emphasis. Our philosophy is not teach to not cuss, but to teach that all words have appropriate times for use because of social norms and to learn how to know the proper context for using them. We teach that words are just sounds that convey meaning and that none are 'bad'.

Everyone cusses. Even people who do not cuss use a different word to replace the 'bad' one which we all know means exactly he same thing so they might as well have said the 'bad' word.

Silly issue, I know, but I have known people to become very uptight over it.

[Orlion]

People who get uptight over swear words tend to get on my nerve. As a recent example, someone I know complained about how "Guardians of the Galaxy" was not enjoyable because they were "trying to get a R rating by swearing." I always want to tell them to "lighten the fuck up".

I understand that we want folks to have a sizeable vocabulary. But focusing on how using swears "is offensive" misses the point of communication. It's like those losers who can not engage in online conversation without criticizing grammar.

[Linna Heartbooger]

People are totalllllly uptight about it!

I'm of some sort of mindset that swearing is only a good idea in a very few occasions...

But on the other hand... people who don't like swearing around kids have something of a point.

Once I was driving and something that was like a near hit happened and I swore.
My kiddo was in the backseat.

Oops, gotta go----- INTERRUPTING KID!

[Vraith]

Oops, gotta go----- INTERRUPTING

BAAAAAAAAHHH!

KID!

I swear more than I "should." [according to convention]
Sometimes it's chosen/purposeful.
But, when I'm just hanging, relaxed, and chatting, "bad words" come out like some people say "umm," "hmmm" "oh," "huh"....or even "the" "and" and "but."
Not meant to be offensive, make a point, or even be noticed. I'm not even sure how, why, or when it got into my speech, really [though I have some stories/suspicions, they're all much post-hoc of the habit...and though a friend said it's probably cuz even my subconscious has never seen a rule it doesn't want to break if it can/thinks it's funny. And both my conscious and sub- tend to think things funny that other folk don't find at all amusing].

And I'm generally not at all fun to be around in situations where I'm constantly trying to make sure a "fuck" or "shit" doesn't slip out.

Funny aside to the cussing thing: there's the old "makes you sound dumb" and "more creative ways to express yourself" critiques. Turns out they're basically myths. They DO make [some] people judge you. But the judgement usually isn't that you're stupid or uncreative. Those are just the "socially acceptable" white lies they use...cuz it's [usually] not socially acceptable to say the bad things they're thinking about your personality or social skills.

[aliantha]

I swear a lot in RL....

I did raise my kids not to swear. That went about as well as you'd expect. One thing I was strict about, though, was not calling other people names. And I never called *them* names, either. I got called a lot of crappy stuff when I was a kid, and I just didn't want it happening in my house.

Which leads to a funny story. Well, it was funny to us at the time, anyway. On Thanksgiving 2013, the girls and I were sitting around the table having the festive meal. I said something about how I tried to serve orange-cranberry relish one year but nobody would eat it; Batty said something goofy about cranberries and relish (the kind with pickles that you put on a hot dog); and without thinking, I said, "Not *that* kind of relish, you moron!" The kids howled with laughter -- they knew I didn't mean it -- but I still felt terrible about it. Every time it comes up, I apologize all over again.

[StevieG]

I feel vaguely uncomfortable when I hear school kids swearing (mainly in the 7-12 year age bracket). My son (11) and daughter (9) know all the words, understand them to a degree, but don't really use them. We've tried not to make a big deal about it at home, and it seems that that is the way they treat swearing, with indifference.

However, I don't have a problem with it - I swear in RL. There are many situations where I wouldn't swear as much. I certainly wouldn't start ripping into it in a business situation. Having said that, when someone does, in most cases it doesn't make the slightest difference to the conversation. I don't swear much around my mother, as she's used to polite, "civilised" conversation, and is a strict Catholic which may or may not have a bearing on it, but seems to make her really uptight about certain things like swearing, sex, violence etc.

[Avatar]

As I might have mentioned, I swear when I talk. I swear a lot. Barely a sentence I speak doesn't contain the word "fuck." I don't even bother "not letting it slip out."

This earns me a frequent elbow in the ribs from the GF around kids though. (Even though she thinks kids swearing is hilarious.)

Like Ananda, I think it's about teaching them what (and when) is appropriate.

--A

[Linna Heartbooger]

a friend said it's probably cuz even my subconscious has never seen a rule it doesn't want to break if it can/thinks it's funny.

Sounds like a pretty down-to-earth friend.
But of course, then we can wonder about the subconscious... whatever that is! Is ones subconscious mind 'you'? Is it all of you?
Unless you're fooling us very well, in you, that desire is balanced by a conscious yearning to see people treated with respect and dignity.


Now, to finish that story from earlier:

Once I was driving and something that was like a near hit happened and I swore.
My kiddo was in the backseat...

A short time later (either later that day or within a week), my kid found himself in a similar situation to me.
Granted, he was driving a red plastic car indoors, and there was a 3-year-old pedestrian stopped in front of him.
So he honked his horn and loudly said, "chit!" because he thought that was the thing to do.

This is to say that "modeling" is really really really a big deal with small children.
Also, though it can be funny... tiny tots saying things they don't mean or understand often makes people uncomfortable... and sometimes for good reason.

Now, there's something I want to ask y'all:
Why (as far as you can tell) do people 'cuss'? [/i]

[Fist and Faith]

I doubt it's possible to teach a child that, when you drop your toy while shopping in the grocery story, it's appropriate to say "Damn!" but not "Fuck!"

I think cuss words have a purpose. I use them often enough myself. Too often, imo. I think their impact is lessened when they're overused. Like if someone's typical day is saying things like "I ate this extraordinary apple today." "I saw a phenomenal pencil." "The leaves on that tree are astonishingly green." You get the impression the person isn't real clear on when to use such words. (Louis CK had an awesome bit about people using "hilarious" and "amazing" inappropriately. I'd link it if I could find it right now.) Same with cussing. But then, it's worse with cussing. I'm not going to think anything bad about a child saying "Incredible!" now and then, or even way too often. I'm certainly going to have a negative opinion of the parents of a child dropping F bombs all over the place. And I'll shake my head in pity at an adult doing the same thing in a public setting, even though I might join in in private. What's wrong with having different things being appropriate in different situations? We don't pull our pants down and take a dump on a busy sidewalk. Why not? It's as natural a thing as anything else we'll do it public. Hell, it's more natural than wearing clothes.

[lorin]

To me there are different kinds of curse words with different messages. Fuck, shit, other bodily function stuff means nothing to me.

But to me when you get into the race, disparaging sexual curses i.e.

Spoiler

nigger, cunt, kyke,

(you get the idea) there are too many implications that go along with those words. Children don't even understand the meaning of half of them and don't understand the history of these words. I don't believe they should be encouraged or allowed.

I have, whoops, had, a staff the was 90% black. They would call each other

Spoiler

nigger,

and I would hear the kids in the shelter use the word too. I would challenge the caseworkers about saying it and their response was that they are entitled as one black to another, to use that word. What I would say it that by doing that they are keeping the word, and all its implications in our everyday vocabulary. That children hear it and don't even understand the history of that word. Eventually I had to forbid the use of the word and write up any social worker that used it. And it worked, at least a bit. The adults stopped using it and I heard less and less 8 year olds using it.

So, imo, its not so black and white (so to speak).

[Linna Heartbooger]

I would challenge the caseworkers about saying it...

I bet one day, the last straw was placed on the camel's back, and things went down (almost, sorta) like this:

Lorin: "Really? Really?? Dropping the N-bomb again?"
Caseworker: <gives some self-justification>
Lorin: (to self) "Not anymore! Not on my watch!" <goes off to type up a document>

[Vraith]

(you get the idea) there are too many implications that go along with those words.

Yea...I do guess I have SOME rules. I used to use "bitch" a lot [but not AT someone, calling someone A bitch, especially a female] but not so much anymore. And I called a woman the "C" word exactly once...but it was either that or destroy something. It was the absolute worst thing I could think of to say, the thing that would hurt the most. That's why I never use it otherwise, and did the once...not insensitivity to the harm such can cause when tossed about, or the idea that peeps should get over themselves, not even cuz it was true/accurate in any way...but because I knew it would hurt, I wanted it to. Those kinds of things shouldn't be sprinkled all over. [the N word is in that category for me...except I can't even imagine the situation that would make me use it at someone].

As for kids using them:
It does bother me, sometimes, some words, some ages. I think it bugs me because they don't really know what they're saying/meaning [even if they do, kinda, know. Asked one of my nieces [5/6/7ish at the time] if she knew what the word she just used [fuck] meant. She began a very graphic and accurate description of what fucking involves...with pointing/hand gestures.]

[Linna Heartbooger]

Yeahh... what you're saying up there in the first part makes sense, vraith.

(not gonna get near that second paragraph, atm!)

[Orlion]

lorin (and I guess other people ) are absolutely correct. Often times kids do not know the meaning, context, offensiveness of some words they copy which can lead to some issues.

For example: for kids these days, the Dumbo scene with the crows may mean nothing to them aside from being a scene with crows. But if they decided to re-enact it in public? There might be (understandably) some fairly offended people.

So for such sensitive subjects, it's important kids are observed and understand that, "hey, I know I Wanna Be Like You is your favorite Disney song, but don't sing it in public!" If you can convey the seriousness of it, they usually don't need to understand the exact why.

Example, growing up we took in a black and white stray cat in Arizona. It was around October, so he was named Spook. No issue with the name in Arizona. When we moved to Ohio, my dad noticed that there was a lot greater portion of the population that was African-American. So he set us down and told us the cat's name was going to change because due to his coloring, the name might be considered offensive. So the name was changed to Spooky. I didn't completely understand the reasoning then, but I do now... didn't matter at the time, it just seemed important that we changed the name of the cat!

[sgt.null]

I swear a lot at work. I try to limit it at home. and I don't use the very naughty words when writing.

[Avatar]

Oops, catching up. Ah, the dreaded "C" word. The last taboo. I never really use it myself except very deliberately to shock people. It is however my GF's favourite swear word. They are, she points out, merely words. Perhaps robbing them of impact and even context is not such a bad thing.

--A

[[Syl]]

Yeah, I was a sailor and I tend to live up to the stereotype. I cuss a lot, probably more than my posts here even would indicate. I've recently been resisting my urge to cuss when I drive, mainly because it puts my wife in a bad mood, though I've found it actually makes me happier (which really I should've known, since studies show that 'venting' tends to increase anger rather than letting it go). But that's angry cussing. I cuss casually, including in front of the kids, though of course I only use it when the word has little or no meaning beyond an intensifier.

I believe they're just words and that it's the thought behind them that counts. I have told my son how to properly use the words, though I have also explained to him that there's a time and place, a list for him that's pretty short.

[sgt.null]

I won't take the Lord's name in vain. (JC and GD) and I am not often scatological. but the others I tend to blend into a very poetic brew. I have had the inmates in awe at the lengths (and depths) I will go. I could hold a symposium.

[SoulBiter]

When I was a young adult, I cussed .... alot. But two things impacted that for me. One was moving from a construction job into a business job where cussing is frowned upon. The other was having kids. I dont believe kids should cuss and if I dont want them cussing then I shouldnt do it either. Im not a prude and I knew as they got older they would cuss when not around me. What it has taught them is how to reign it in when the circumstances require it.

Some of you would annoy me to be around. I cant stand to be around someone who uses Fuck, shit, MFkr, etc etc etc... in every sentence. Its crude and obnoxious and quite frankly (yeah you guys are gonna disagree) it shows a lack of personal maturity. Typically the people I have been around that cuss that much, don't notice when its no longer appropriate and have to be told......"Hey this is a Church you know" LOL.

[Linna Heartbooger]

I feel like I needed to check that these last three posts really and truly happened... apparently they did.

SB- I think that's a pretty awesome line (though usually it's gonna be misunderstood).
If you use it, you should get bonus points if you:
A. Use it in a bar the first time, or
B. Use it against someone who is "higher status" than you (either officially or unofficially)