Bakker's THE DARKNESS THAT COMES BEFORE

[Zarathustra]

I have to say that the WLW is better on a second read. Once I knew to expect lots of walking and talking, I could appreciate it for what it was. And there were some things that I missed, like the fact that the Nonmen are now aligned with Golgatterath (sp?), and that Cleric is their King. I knew he was *a* former king, but not exactly which King. Reading the appendix of the vol. III of the last trilogy helped sort a lot of that out, too. The separate climaxes of each story are nice, though the "let them eat Sranc" climax of the Great Ordeal's story was probably the weakest. I really liked the unexpected showdown between Maithanet and Esmenet. The multiple reversals were quite a ride (five by my count). I'm a little confused if the White Luck warrior is still supposed to kill Esmenet. The assassin she hired to kill Maithanet was described almost exactly like the WLW. Are they the same person? I didn't think so at first, but why describe them the same way? And why set us up to expect that he'd kill Esmenet, but then he didn't? I have to assume we can trust the WLW's own foreknowledge of his actions, since he has this incredible, multifaceted view of his entire timeline. So is he supposed to kill her in the next book? Why was it never mentioned that he foresaw killing Maithanet? Obviously, this is all just misdirection from Bakker. Kind of a cheap ploy from such an intelligent writer.

[I'm Murrin]

I'm pretty sure the White-Luck Warrior was the one that killed Maithanet. There was even a scene from his perspective where he remembered killing and taking the place of the real assassin (then waiting for Esmenet to come and hire him), wasn't there?

His vision of his future also involve him being around Esmenet inside the palace at some point later on, IIRC. Apparently the gods' plan involves him staying close to her for some purpose that hasn't come around yet.


As for Cleric, it seemed while he was the absent king, he had left either because of or before their alliance with Golgotterath.

The thing I'm still really intrigued by from that book is the fact that Achamian is now having visions of Anasurimbor Nau-Cayuti's life - after he was poisoned and buried alive. The fact that an Anasurimbor from the original age may still be alive inside Golgotterath has massive implications... (although he's almost certainly an Anasurimbor in name only).

[Zarathustra]

Excellent points, Murrin. It seems I've missed some on a second read, too! I forgot about the WLW killing the assassin hired by Esmi. And it didn't occur to me at all that Akka was having visions of Nau-Cayuti's life - after he was poisoned and buried alive. Are you talking about the chain of prisoners vision he keeps having? I didn't realize who that was.

[I'm Murrin]

That's what I think it was, yeah. He had the vision of the Inchoroi digging him up and getting him out of the box (didn't he have a vision of the poisoning, too?), along with lots of visions inside Golgotterath (which Bakker obscured at first with all that stuff about souls in the trees interfering in the visions) - and since it's heavily implied that Nau-Cayuti is Seswatha's son, the connection seems natural. It makes more sense that all the visions are connected to Seswatha and his son than to think there might be other random people popping into his head.

[Avatar]

So, I've finally read TJE and WLW, and I have to say that, overall, I was disappointed. Nothing much seemed to happen except a long, drawn out journey...uh...sorta like the long drawn out journey of the first series.

The WLW was interesting, and I have the same confusion...thought he was going to kill Esmi...

The new dreams, the flashbacks to the 1st apocalypse were some of the best parts. The fractured timeline of the WLW was annoying, although I see what he was trying to show with it.

So there will be a third series?

Still haven't decided if Kellhus is actually trying to prevent the 2nd apocalypse or not yet.

Overall, meh. The first series was better. Book 3 needs to be fantastic to make up for these two.

--A

[Zarathustra]

I thought TJE was better, and TWLW could have been much better if 100-200 pages shorter, in addition to the story going farther. If the Great Ordeal had actually done something besides march and fight, that would have helped. More Kellhus would have been nice, though I did enjoy Sorweel's story.

Granted, Bakker did have many miles to cover, literally. Akka's journey was enormous. The decent into Qirri addiction was a nice touch. Ultimately, this could have been redeemed if the endings had justified the massive journeys. I thought the wizard fight was anti-climatic, as was the Ordeal's storyline. The interlude at the end only strengthened the impression of futile, pointlessness, and I can't think of a single reason to advance Akka's story a massive distance in a few pages only to have his goal be deserted, and thus undermine the entire point for this journey, as well as the narrative justification for going into so much detail for the first two legs of it. If the final leg can be given in a few pages, why were we subjected to over a 1000 pages of excruciating detail for the parts that didn't matter, only to have a resolution that didn't matter?

Many bad story-telling choices here.

However, as always, the writing itself was amazing.

[Avatar]

More Kellhus would definitely have been good. Sorweel just didn't do it for me.

I felt the whole series so far is lacking a really strong character...I really miss Cnaiur. And on top of the tedium of the journey, Akka wasn't particularly good in this one either...I mean, I get that he's much more broken, but really, he spent the whole trip mostly numb and dull from the Qirri.

Also, Mainthenet was just getting interesting and he was killed off. Feel like his potential was more described than realised.

Will be interested to see what happens when the hostages reach the Nonmen, given they're apparently effectively fallen to the Consult.

--A