!!SPOILERS!! AATE complete novel discussion !!SPOILERS!!

[Blackhawk]

Havent read it yet... im wating for the final dark. nothing new..i did the same thing with runes and FR. heh..my post got pushed to a new page so i didnt have to read any spoilers!

[dlbpharmd]

Havent read it yet... im wating for the final dark. nothing new..i did the same thing with runes and FR. heh..my post got pushed to a new page so i didnt have to read any spoilers!

When are we going to see some new artwork from you?

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Havent read it yet... im wating for the final dark. nothing new..i did the same thing with runes and FR. heh..my post got pushed to a new page so i didnt have to read any spoilers!

If you're waiting for the final dark, then how are you going to read it?

[Auleliel]

Havent read it yet... im wating for the final dark. nothing new..i did the same thing with runes and FR. heh..my post got pushed to a new page so i didnt have to read any spoilers!

If you're waiting for the final dark, then how are you going to read it?

Maybe he's going to read it in Braille?

[Avatar]

I enjoyed it. My favourite of the Last Chrons so far. Quite a few big events, in a very short space of time. But still no real punch in the gut. There was a little much foreshadowing for real shock.

I'm expecting a terrible one in the last one though...

--A

[Starfire 152]

Here are some random thoughts on the characters. I see change, self-discovery, and maturation as important to friends of the Land, and the lack of in the enemies.

The Ardent & Harrow

The Ardent undergoes great change during the course of the story. From a smug, vain, self-serving pomp to the greatest of Insequent in a few days. Before when he experienced dangers (Nicor)its was from a vantage of safety. In the Lost Deep he faced death several times and undergoes self-discovery and maturation. In the end he saves the Company from certain death. He makes friends (unlike the Harrow or Roger even). Remember when Liand gave him a hug? It was a new and unprecedented experience from him, and entirely unlooked-for. That he was held in esteem for his character, not his acheivements. He's also the funniest damm thing Ive ever read.

The Insequent as a race have two motivations: An ancient goal to humiliate the Elohim and now to save the Earth.

The Harrow had no interest save his own. In the end his greed was his downfall. Had he not been so intent on the Croyel he might have noticed Roger's arrival. The Croyel knew what is was doing when it grinned at the Harrow. Why the heck is the Harrow on the book cover anyway?

Stave

Stave undergoes change, as he must. What started in ROTE reaches a turning point here. He is first Haruchai to cry, to admit the emotions long repressed by his race. Pain, Loss. Grief. Stave not only acheived emotional greatness but physical and mental prowess that the Humbled cant match. In the confrontation with Infelice he breaks her stasis. (This is also unprecedented) Why? He is closer to being ak-Haru Stave. By service and sacrifice he has become the greatest Haruchai of his age. Brinn bacame ak-Haru by sacrificing himself, not by any combat. (although the element of combat is important) Covenant beat Lord Foul by sacrificing the ring.

Ur-viles and Waynhim

These have shown that they can change and work for good. The ur-viles by Vain and the manacles and the Wayhnim by putting aside their ancient emnity for their roynish bretheren.

Esmer

Esmer as antagonist: he cant heal himslelf and he is totally unhappy. Esmer freed by Stave: joy. Esmer dead may yet play a role.

Thomas Covenant

In the past he sacrificed himself for Joan. Here he sacrifices Joan for the Land. He suffers and endures. He saves the Humbled from the ceasure, not just for his self-interest. TC would never betray his comapnions. He eventually heals his mind but is unable to heal his body.

Linden

Linden has suffered horribly by Jeremiahs's plight, her guilt of waking the worm, and her contact with SHE. As a mother she fights for her child. In the process she becomes a stronger person. The Linden of ROTE would be totally unsuccessful here. In the end she gains her heart's desire (for real this time)
Jeremiah

We can only surmise that Jeremiah was conscious of his mother' s love and for years a victim of the Depsiser. Jerry embodies the freedom of choice which is so impotant in AATE. He cant make his own choices so he "isnt there" When imprisoned and controlled by the Croyel he was a non-person. In the end he freed himself with a little help, and is able to give and recieve love. And become a pussiant being of earthpower to boot.

The Croyel.

Unchanged and eternally greedy, the croyel fashioned his own prison. Has he let go of Jerry, he might have lived. (If it was possible to let go) Where the croyel came from, how it came to posess Jerry, and what agreement it had with Roger and the Despiser is unknown.

Kevin

Keving finally undergoes change as being forgiven and and accepting the forgiveness of his fathers. It only took 8000 years and was made possible by Linden. Dont forget that.

Infelice

The Elohim never really helped except for Findail, and then reluctantly. The Staff lives, so Findail must live also. What is a triumph for the Elohim they construe as tragedy. Infelice is opposed by the Ranyhyn, and she fails to stop Jerry. She refused to accept that she might be wrong (remember the Sun-Sage and Ringbearer?) or acknowledge guilt over Longwrath. Therefore she fails. The Elohim are flexible and inventive with their appearance, but inflexible in thought and belief.

Anele

Anele achieves final peace by sacrifice. Was he motivated by the guilt of Sunder's death? We know that losing the staff tormented him. He may yet play a role as one of the Dead. Did he contrive his own madness? Did he know of Jerry's importance?

The Krill. Is more than just a pretty knife.

Satansfist Sheol. Caer-Caveral. Esmer. Joan. Who else?

Roger, Cavewights, Kastenessen, Ravers, Lord Foul:

No change at all. Maybe more sneaky, but they have learned nothing and remain unchanged.

Thanks
Starfire 152

[thewormoftheworld'send]

<snip>
The Krill. Is more than just a pretty knife.

Satansfist Sheol. Caer-Caveral. Esmer. Joan. Who else?

Roger, Cavewights, Kastenessen, Ravers, Lord Foul:

No change at all. Maybe more sneaky, but they have learned nothing and remain unchanged.

Thanks
Starfire 152

That was entirely the wrong line of thought to keep my interest up through your comment. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that I'm more interested in knowing how AATE was constructed and even how it links back to previous books. Have you signed up to dissect a chapter out of AATE? You'd be good at that, while I would suck big time because I can't be satisfied with dissecting things. The dissection is really just a synopsis, sometimes with analysis thrown in depending on who's doing the dissecting.

[Vraith]

The dissection is really just a synopsis, sometimes with analysis thrown in depending on who's doing the dissecting.

But the analysis parts, and the responses to them go some very interesting places.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

The dissection is really just a synopsis, sometimes with analysis thrown in depending on who's doing the dissecting.

But the analysis parts, and the responses to them go some very interesting places.

Sometimes.

[Starfire 152]

Paugh! Rub NOT your beads at me.

<snip>
That was entirely the wrong line of thought to keep my interest up through your comment.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Paugh! Rub NOT your beads at me.

<snip>
That was entirely the wrong line of thought to keep my interest up through your comment.

Ok? I did keep the part where you said "the krill is more than a knife," but I left it unanswered. Now I shall answer it. Yes we know the krill is more than a knife. It is a kind of short sword with magical properties, it "cooperates" with other forms of magic.

Krill is also whale food. Why Donaldson didn't know that back in 1977 is beyond me.

[Starfire 152]

I think my point was that Krill has only slain powerful beings, never a mere mortal that we know of. I believe the Krill "silenced" the Viles in a similar manner that Linden opened the portal to the Lost Deep, cutting a specific thread of their theurgy. The Harrow's defeat of the Demondim may be similar.

The Krill is built around a stone, a very rare stone shaped by Earthpower. The Krill and the heels of the SOL are the only magical artefacts left from Kevin's time still in use, made by the Old Lords. (Notwithstanding the Orcrest is as old as the Earth, and that atoms of everything in question are billions of years old...)

The first Staff was made from the One Tree. The second SOL is made of wood, or woodlike substance. Why is it that the second staff appears to be wood? Does the One Tree contain the essences of Elohim and Viles? Those two races have some similar qualities.

The Krill and SOL together may represent the "forgotten truths of stone and wood" They are the most powerful and significant stone and wood we have right now.

[quote="TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd] Yes we know the krill is more than a knife. It is a kind of short sword with magical properties, it "cooperates" with other forms of magic.

Krill is also whale food. Why Donaldson didn't know that back in 1977 is beyond me.[/quote]

[thewormoftheworld'send]

I think my point was that Krill has only slain powerful beings, never a mere mortal that we know of. I believe the Krill "silenced" the Viles in a similar manner that Linden opened the portal to the Lost Deep, cutting a specific thread of their theurgy. The Harrow's defeat of the Demondim may be similar.

The Krill is built around a stone, a very rare stone shaped by Earthpower. The Krill and the heels of the SOL are the only magical artefacts left from Kevin's time still in use, made by the Old Lords. (Notwithstanding the Orcrest is as old as the Earth, and that atoms of everything in question are billions of years old...)

The first Staff was made from the One Tree. The second SOL is made of wood, or woodlike substance. Why is it that the second staff appears to be wood? Does the One Tree contain the essences of Elohim and Viles? Those two races have some similar qualities.

The Krill and SOL together may represent the "forgotten truths of stone and wood" They are the most powerful and significant stone and wood we have right now.

Yes we know the krill is more than a knife. It is a kind of short sword with magical properties, it "cooperates" with other forms of magic.

Krill is also whale food. Why Donaldson didn't know that back in 1977 is beyond me.

I fixed the quote from yours truly. There may be forgotten truths involving Loric's krill and the Sol that will solve the Worm problem. But you don't know the age of the Land's Earth. I estimate it to be no more than 1 million years old, based on what I've read of that world's history.

[Vraith]

The first Staff was made from the One Tree. The second SOL is made of wood, or woodlike substance. Why is it that the second staff appears to be wood? Does the One Tree contain the essences of Elohim and Viles? Those two races have some similar qualities.

The Krill and SOL together may represent the "forgotten truths of stone and wood" They are the most powerful and significant stone and wood we have right now.

The conclusion is interesting...at least true as far as actual artifacts, not natural features.
However, the second Staff is only wood by transformation...it has nothing in common with normal [even "normal" in the supernatural sense] wood at all...what it does have, however, much like white gold, an amalgamation of multiple sources

[rockbroray]

I think Jerry is giong to be the key in the last book. Anle sacrificed himself to save him. Somewhere it said Anle would make all the difference, now he's dead. His life ended to enable Jerry to live and help in some way.

[ninjaboy]

Who the Hell is Jerry?

[Prover of Life]

Who the Hell is Jerry?

Jeremiah

[Horrim Carabal]

Who the Hell is Jerry?

Jeremiah

Not Jerry the Raver, the missing 4th brother?

[ninjaboy]

Hmm..
Anyone ever wonder why there were just 3 ravers anyway? Is there a particular reason for it that anyone's found out, or any theories?

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Hmm..
Anyone ever wonder why there were just 3 ravers anyway? Is there a particular reason for it that anyone's found out, or any theories?

The same reason there are three Agents in the Matrix. Didn't you know?

In Masonic lore, the original Grand Master, Hiram Abiff, the builder of Solomon's Temple in Jersualem, was killed by three villains: Jubela, Jubelo, and Jubelum.

The root word of all three names comes from the Latin for "to command"; the final syllable of their names--"a", "o", and "um"--phonetically spell out the meditative intonation "aum", as in "aummannepatmeaum" or "the jewel is in the lotus".

Anyway...if you want to know why there are three villains then the discussion gets a lot more complex and deep. We would have to discuss the meanings associated with the number three--there are many--and what the three villains themselves represent.