Should I receive Confirmation? Advice needed

[Cail]

When they're questioning you at the gate, drop my name, I'll vouch for you.

Did you ever see the episode of The Simpsons where they show Protestant Heaven as an uptight, fuddy-duddy place, and there's a party raging in Catholic Heaven? Priceless.

[bossk]

Never mind this post - it had nothing to do with the original subject - EDIT!

[Avatar]

Think I missed that one.

When they're questioning you at the gate, drop my name, I'll vouch for you.

Thanks man. But I hope they offer the tour first so I know if it's the kinda place I want to be.

--A

[ChoChiyo]

16--good heavens.

I thought you were at least in your mid to late twenties.

On the other hand, I was shocked to discover HLT was a grown up man with children! I thought he was much younger. (Though not as young as you!)

You are in a dilema. When I was confirmed when I was 13 or so, I was totally mind-washed by my background and upbringing. I just did what I was expected to do--thinking it was the right thing.

It is commendable that you have thought seriously enough about your faith journey to question it. It shows that it actually matters to you--and is not just a hoop you are hopping through.

My gut instinct is to tell you not to participate in an event that you really do not feel committed to--because you are a thoughtful and deep person, it might make you feel like a hypocrite.

On the other hand, you no doubt WILL be opening a huge kettle of worms if you don't. My family would have been in a complete uproar if I had refused to be confirmed.

My best advice would be for you to choose a member of your family who is rational and even tempered (sounds like most of them are) and sit down with them for a long discussion of exactly how you feel about the confirmation thing.

You might be opening yourself up to some heckling from your peers as well. Especially, since a party and monetary gifts are involved.



Ultimately, the decision is yours alone. I would urge you to think long and hard about how you feel about doing something you do not believe strongly in at this time. If your priest is a cool and rational guy, I would discuss my reservations with him. Or perhaps a priest from another church, so that there is no later repercussions from the discussion--such as your priest refusing to confirm you.

No matter what you do, your spiritual and life journey will continue.

I believe that God would rather have us think and ponder our place in the journey--and when we do offer ourselves to him, we do it KNOWING what we are doing.

You can always rewrite the confirmation in your head as a step in the continuing journey for discovering the truth--ultimately, it is between you and God and nobody else.

You can view it as dedicating yourself to living a life of enriching yourself with knowledge and faith--and stepping forward to meet whatever lies ahead.

As long as you are completely honest with yourself and God, everyone else can be on a "need-to-know" basis.



Hope that wasn't too confusing--I had to write it to figure out what I thought. Heh.

It's always that way with me.

[Lord Mhoram]

Avatar, Cail,

Regarding Jews going to Heaven - that doesn't make much sense to me, as I was aware that most Jews don't believe in an afterlife. Cail: Yes, I saw the Catholic Simpsons episode.

Ah well, I'm shit outta luck then, aren't I?

ROFL

Cho,

Hope that wasn't too confusing--I had to write it to figure out what I thought. Heh.

It's always that way with me.

Heh, nope that made sense! Thank you.

[Cail]

I'm not sure what the Jews believe vis-a-vis the afterlife, but I believe they'll be there.

[Menolly]

As for confirmation, I've always had difficulty with the rituals of religion. Saying that someone needs to do X or Y at a certain age doesn't, to me, address their spiritual growth at all. I much prefer "this person should do X or Y when they are ready for it - not before". It just undermines belief in general to make people do things they aren't spiritually thirsty for.

If we all did this, then very few Jewish 13 year olds in the US would have their b'nai mitzvah. Trust me, the majority of American preteens don't want to attend after school Religious School two to three days a week to learn a language with strange letters and which they may learn to read, but hardly comprehend.

My parents did give me the choice, and after one year of RS, I stopped going and was never Bas Mitzvahed. But as I have matured and aged, I now regret it. Beorn currently is studying for his Bar Mitzvah in 13 months time, even though he constantly complains about it. He doesn't want to do it, but he is working towards it.

Regarding Jews going to Heaven - that doesn't make much sense to me, as I was aware that most Jews don't believe in an afterlife.

I'm not sure what the Jews believe vis-a-vis the afterlife, but I believe they'll be there.

Well, I would say most Jews nowadays have no concept this is even in our tradition, but we do have a description of an afterlife.

Olam Ha-Ba

I personally go the many lifetimes route, but that's my personal belief, and not one consistantly talked about in current Juadism. I could probably very easily go the Ju-Bu route, if I studied Bhuddism at all. But, I'll stick with my interest in Jewitchery and Jewish Renewal teachings, while worshipping at Lubavitch.

[bossk]

Menolly said: "My parents did give me the choice, and after one year of RS, I stopped going and was never Bas Mitzvahed. But as I have matured and aged, I now regret it."

I think this supports my position rather than refuting it. If it is a meaningful sacrament, why should you have to forgo it? Because you're "too old"? Rubbish. You have come to appreciate it, and to me that is ten times more meaningful than being told to do it because it's "time".

[Avatar]

Fascinating link Menolly. Thanks. Personally, I like the fact that Judaism considers the "here and now" to be more important. That whole "Jam tomorrow..." has always struck me as slightly suspicious.

Good posts folks. I agree with Bossk though, if it is important, then how much more significant would it be if you only did it once you realised and accepted the importance thereof?

(And speaking of Bhudda, did you know that he insisted that his teaching never be accepted without question? It is a requirement of Bhuddism that you doubt what you're told. I love that.)

--Avatar

[Menolly]

Menolly said: "My parents did give me the choice, and after one year of RS, I stopped going and was never Bas Mitzvahed. But as I have matured and aged, I now regret it."

I think this supports my position rather than refuting it. If it is a meaningful sacrament, why should you have to forgo it? Because you're "too old"? Rubbish. You have come to appreciate it, and to me that is ten times more meaningful than being told to do it because it's "time".

Ah...but as I have matured and aged, I have also detemined that Judaic egalitarianism is not for me. I have explained my reasons for this elsewhere. What I now regret is the years of learning and studying I am now trying to catch up on, not of regretting not having the ceremony and party.

[Avatar]

By the time most people realise they want the knowledge, it's no longer quite as easy to acquire.

--A

[Revan]

Darth, perhaps, since they are really into their Church, they think that this is the right thing for him? And he is still a minor child living under their roof. That does give them a bit of input, after all.

Some parents are monstrous in what they do to their children in the name of religion. Dave's mom sounds very mellow, for instance, in comparison to my Mormon sister-in-law, who did her best to turn her son's life into living hell well into adulthood because he wasn't interested in the church (we're talking things like coming into his apartment -- that he, an adult was paying rent on and throwing out/destroying any books and CD's she didn't approve of -- that he had paid for).

"Minor child?" I think not. He is 16, and very capable of making this decision for himself.

And why do they think they have the right to decide what is right for him, duchess? He's 16, very intellgient and mature for his age (As I've gathered from both his posts and peoples reactions to his youth) I think Mhoram (Or whatever his real name his) is perfectly able to decide what is right and wrong for himself.

[Cail]

Except that by law he is a minor child, and as such has to abide by his parents.

[ur-bane]

True, by law he does. However, I happen to disagree with any parent forcing their children into their belief system.
I have no problem whatsoever with a parent introducing their child to their religion. But forcing him/her to follow that religion (especially at Mhoram's age) is ridiculous. A parent is supposed to be a guide, not a god.

[Cail]

It's the parent's job to instill a belief and value system for their children.

[Revan]

It's the parent's job to instill a belief and value system for their children.

And also teach their children to think and decide for themselves.

[ur-bane]

It's the parent's job to instill a belief and value system for their children.

Absolutely, it is. I have no qualms with that. My problem is with the parents that don't allow their children to think for themselves as they grow up, such as is Mhoram's case. There's a difference between drawing a map for your child and dragging that child down a road.

While legally he may be a minor, I think Mhoram has shown a very clear ability to think for himself, and is perfectly capable of creating his own belief system. In that regard, his parents job is done.

[Revan]

It's the parent's job to instill a belief and value system for their children.

Absolutely, it is. I have no qualms with that. My problem is with the parents that don't allow their children to think for themselves as they grow up, such as is Mhoram's case. There's a difference between drawing a map for your child and dragging that child down a road.

While legally he may be a minor, I think Mhoram has shown a very clear ability to think for himself, and is perfectly capable of creating his own belief system. In that regard, his parents job is done.

That's what i said just then. heh, our post were less than a minute apart, so you might not have seen...

I think you have the right of it ur-bane.

[ChoChiyo]

I don't think Mhoram has said his parents don't allow him to think for himself...quite the opposite, in fact. I think his issue is more about hurting his family's feelings by not participating in the confirmation.

That said, I agree that there is a big difference between showing your child the way and dragging him forcibly down that road--especially if they are over 16. It's almost a guaranteed way of making the child spurn that road as soon as he is old enough to escape the parental thumb.

THAT said, I do think that younger kids--say 13 and under--should be required to attend religious services with the family if the family attends. There is a difference between seriously questioning the belief system of one's family and just wanting to stay home and watch the tube.

While there may be an exception or two, I think kids younger than 12 don't usually have the maturity to think seriously about the family belief system.

[ur-bane]

I was typing while you posted, Darth. Cail's was the last response when I started typing. I saw your post after I posted, at which time I realized you posted your post before I posted my post, while my post was still being typed, but not yet posted.

EDIT (since Cho got her post in before I did, again. )

...There is a difference between seriously questioning the belief system of one's family and just wanting to stay home and watch the tube.

While there may be an exception or two, I think kids younger than 12 don't usually have the maturity to think seriously about the family belief system.

Exactly, Cho. Exactly.