Meatlore... or Beef, it's what for dinner
Moderators: kevinswatch, Orlion
so are you saying that vegetarians are right but we just dont take it far enough?
regardless, i'm happy with the small part i have in providing a better quality of life for animals on this planet.i dont feel particularly conflicted about my savage killing and eating of half a cucumber. i cant say any more.
(half a cucumber!! maybe ONE STEAK WOULDNT BE THAT BAD!
regardless, i'm happy with the small part i have in providing a better quality of life for animals on this planet.i dont feel particularly conflicted about my savage killing and eating of half a cucumber. i cant say any more.
(half a cucumber!! maybe ONE STEAK WOULDNT BE THAT BAD!
It'd take you a long time to blow up or shoot all the sheep in this country, but one diseased banana...could kill 'em all.
I didn't even know sheep ate bananas.
I didn't even know sheep ate bananas.
- Avatar
- Immanentizing The Eschaton
- Posts: 61791
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
- Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
- Has thanked: 15 times
- Been thanked: 22 times
Except of course, you're not providing a better quality of life for a single animal.Tazzman wrote:i'm happy with the small part i have in providing a better quality of life for animals on this planet.
Although the total amount of meat you may have eaten might well total many animals, not one of them has been kept alive because you don't eat them. They were all pen-reared, hormone-filled, and slaughtered anyway, to be eaten by somebody else.
--A
theres more free range farms and conditions for animals have improved in certain parts of the world because of the pressure put upon farmers and muti-national companies by the vegetarian 'movement'. simple business means they have to listen to the consumer and if people stop buying the product they have to look at the reasons why and do their best to correct the percieved problems.Avatar wrote:Except of course, you're not providing a better quality of life for a single animal.Tazzman wrote:i'm happy with the small part i have in providing a better quality of life for animals on this planet.
Although the total amount of meat you may have eaten might well total many animals, not one of them has been kept alive because you don't eat them. They were all pen-reared, hormone-filled, and slaughtered anyway, to be eaten by somebody else.
--A
It'd take you a long time to blow up or shoot all the sheep in this country, but one diseased banana...could kill 'em all.
I didn't even know sheep ate bananas.
I didn't even know sheep ate bananas.
- Avatar
- Immanentizing The Eschaton
- Posts: 61791
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
- Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
- Has thanked: 15 times
- Been thanked: 22 times
True, but it isn't saving the life of a single animal.Tazzman wrote:theres more free range farms and conditions for animals have improved in certain parts of the world because of the pressure put upon farmers and muti-national companies by the vegetarian 'movement'. simple business means they have to listen to the consumer and if people stop buying the product they have to look at the reasons why and do their best to correct the percieved problems.
As SgtNull points out, the best you can do is claim a moral high-ground for not participating yourself. More than fair enough, and assuming that you also wear no leather, and eat no animal products at all, you're welcome to it.
--A
- sgt.null
- Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
- Posts: 47251
- Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
- Location: Brazoria, Texas
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 6 times
Barbecue meats linked with prostate cancer
rueters
A compound formed when meat is charred at high temperatures -- as in barbecue -- encourages the growth of prostate cancer in rats, researchers reported on Sunday. Their study, presented at a meeting of the American Association for Cancer Research, may help explain the link between eating meat and a higher risk of prostate cancer. It also fits in with other studies suggesting that cooking meat until it chars might cause cancer. The compound, called PhIP, is formed when meat is cooked at very high temperatures, Dr. Angelo De Marzo and colleagues at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore reported. It appears to both initiate and promote the growth of prostate cancer in rats, they said.
"We stumbled across a new potential interaction between ingestion of cooked meat in the diet and cancer in the rat," De Marzo said in a statement. "For humans, the biggest problem is that it's extremely difficult to tell how much PhIP you've ingested, since different amounts are formed depending on cooking conditions." For the study, Yatsutomo Nakai and other members of De Marzo's team mixed PhIP into food given to rats for up to eight weeks, then studied the animals' prostates, intestines and spleens. They found genetic mutations in all the organs after four weeks.
rueters
A compound formed when meat is charred at high temperatures -- as in barbecue -- encourages the growth of prostate cancer in rats, researchers reported on Sunday. Their study, presented at a meeting of the American Association for Cancer Research, may help explain the link between eating meat and a higher risk of prostate cancer. It also fits in with other studies suggesting that cooking meat until it chars might cause cancer. The compound, called PhIP, is formed when meat is cooked at very high temperatures, Dr. Angelo De Marzo and colleagues at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore reported. It appears to both initiate and promote the growth of prostate cancer in rats, they said.
"We stumbled across a new potential interaction between ingestion of cooked meat in the diet and cancer in the rat," De Marzo said in a statement. "For humans, the biggest problem is that it's extremely difficult to tell how much PhIP you've ingested, since different amounts are formed depending on cooking conditions." For the study, Yatsutomo Nakai and other members of De Marzo's team mixed PhIP into food given to rats for up to eight weeks, then studied the animals' prostates, intestines and spleens. They found genetic mutations in all the organs after four weeks.
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
- Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19644
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
- Been thanked: 1 time
No, I'm saying that by not applying their beliefs to ALL lifeforms--instead of just the ones that are more similiar to us--their beliefs are inconsistently applied, and hence, disingenuous emotionalism. I thought that was obvious.so are you saying that vegetarians are right but we just dont take it far enough?
That's the only way to eat a steak. Why eat burnt meat? That encourages needless support of the steak sauce industry. [My rare steaks get salt, pepper, and a pinch of garlic powder--that's it. Yum.]Which is why you should eat your steak rare.
- Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19644
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
- Been thanked: 1 time
So why not eat the lathargic, male, nonaffectionate animals? I mean, if that's your cut-off point for edible lifeforms.until my carrots get up and move about, having live births and being affectionate i shall continue to eat my vegetables.
Clearly, we can continue this to the point of absurdity (if we haven't reached it already). And that's the point. Since the moral side of vegatarianism can't be consistently applied to all life (since we have to eat something), it is an illogical position to take from the beginning. If you believe that it is a healthier way to live, then by all means go for it. But the moral part of vegatarianism is ALWAYS applied in a hypocritical manner, since your respect for "lower" lifeforms has a bottom end cut-off point--the very thing by which you claim the moral high ground against meat eaters who think animals are "beneath us" and have no rights.
This isn't rocket science. It's very simple logic. Excluding one group of lifeforms from your sympathy based on arbitrary criteria such as those listed above (moving, birthing, being affectionate, etc.) is still exclusionary. It is still discriminatory. It is still a claim of superiority over billions of lifeforms. And given this fact, vegetarians have little justification for their position of moral high ground. Which is why I say it is just disingenuous emotionalism. Feel good morality. An inauthentic fad.
my rationale is simple. there are certain nutrients, vitamins and protiens that my body needs to function. some of these things i can get from meat or i can get the same things from other sources. i have a CHOICE and while i have that choice i'll make sure as few things have to suffer and die for my personal survival as possible. i dont feel that i'm making some huge sacrifice or that my lifestyle in this is particularly extreme. i dont, nor ever have, lived to eat. this stand is not a hugely principled one and i dont preach or judge others. i'm happy with my choices. valueing life is different to believing all life to be equal. i wouldn't say this logic is hard to follow either.Malik23 wrote:So why not eat the lathargic, male, nonaffectionate animals? I mean, if that's your cut-off point for edible lifeforms.until my carrots get up and move about, having live births and being affectionate i shall continue to eat my vegetables.
Clearly, we can continue this to the point of absurdity (if we haven't reached it already). And that's the point. Since the moral side of vegatarianism can't be consistently applied to all life (since we have to eat something), it is an illogical position to take from the beginning. If you believe that it is a healthier way to live, then by all means go for it. But the moral part of vegatarianism is ALWAYS applied in a hypocritical manner, since your respect for "lower" lifeforms has a bottom end cut-off point--the very thing by which you claim the moral high ground against meat eaters who think animals are "beneath us" and have no rights.
This isn't rocket science. It's very simple logic. Excluding one group of lifeforms from your sympathy based on arbitrary criteria such as those listed above (moving, birthing, being affectionate, etc.) is still exclusionary. It is still discriminatory. It is still a claim of superiority over billions of lifeforms. And given this fact, vegetarians have little justification for their position of moral high ground. Which is why I say it is just disingenuous emotionalism. Feel good morality. An inauthentic fad.
bacteria? hell, if its me or the bacteria, i choose me! vegtables? until irrefutable evidence is provided that my tomatoes are even aware of 'being' i wont feel particularly conflicted.
dont prejudge me please. my choosing not to eat meat in no way implies that i think myself to hold the moral high ground.
just admit that you like the taste of meat and you dont have the discipline or the inclination to give it up even if a non-meat/dairy diet is healthier. (how can that be logical btw?)
fad! 2000 years seems a rather long fad if you ask me.
It'd take you a long time to blow up or shoot all the sheep in this country, but one diseased banana...could kill 'em all.
I didn't even know sheep ate bananas.
I didn't even know sheep ate bananas.
- Avatar
- Immanentizing The Eschaton
- Posts: 61791
- Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
- Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
- Has thanked: 15 times
- Been thanked: 22 times
Just a thought...if it's acceptable for meat-eaters to have a certain moral cut-off point, (which most do, for example, most would not accept cannibalism), then what difference does it make that vegetarians have a different one?
If any moral cut-off is acceptable, then all must be, depending on the individual's own views.
--A
If any moral cut-off is acceptable, then all must be, depending on the individual's own views.
--A